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Author Topic: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...  (Read 3611 times)

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Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #90 on: 10/07/17, 01:28:55 PM »
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I really don't want to play with a huge infusion of non-RP types (translation: a diplomatic way of saying "toxic"),

I find this line of thought to be problematic. What I read from it is most non-rp types are toxic and that statement is a gross mischaracterization of entire sections of the SWTOR community. Not to mention it sounds like an intent to be dismissive of players from other backgrounds in gaming that may be interested or never had an opportunity to learn about rp in a real way.

I hope this is not the stance that is being taken by the leadership here,  would you mind clarifying please?


And yea, I think its pretty crappy to not merge ALL the RP servers together - I get the whole "time zone" thing I guess they are saying, but still - once again showing a lack of understanding of basic MMO playerbases.  Nothing new here. Move along.

And to me, it matters not that more trolls come on Harb - because I literally do very little other than RP.  Trolls in PVP, Raids, fleet - won't ever get to me.  And since we do all of our RP stronghold-side now - they would be easily removed from any event.

I of course understand the effect the trolls have on causing the rest of the server to leave, but just sayin - for many of you those "non-RPing" players on those other servers won't be a blip on your play-time.

I agree with you mostly, Bioware should have merged all the rp servers together. Or hell move every server together into one massive mega server like in Elder Scrolls Online. In ESO they do not have much problem with trolls interrupting rp events, people do what content they do. However the larger reason unfortunately, is they would have to move the physical servers more centralized. As an example, when I play on east coast servers I get 32-40ms (server lag) where on west coast I get 72-89ms. Now you have to think about the Aussies, who have no servers near them, who are getting 300ms -500ms normally where the servers are located now. Poor planning on Bioware's part from the start is hurting us here now.

As for Bioware not having a clear understanding of MMO player base well that's not true. This graphic that i found, however not for star wars, accurately defines the player base of most MMO's. http://i.imgur.com/unYhL.png  Which makes me pretty sad that RP isn't a higher percentage of players. In fact we are the lowest percentage, thus we make them the least amount money. Not including all the vanity items we purchase to get that perfect outfit. In that respect I would think based on my own fervor for outfits and a great many others I know, that would spike us up just below PVP.

Holding events in strongholds is a great way to control where trolls are in your space, I agree. But for us to get the attention of outsiders who may be able to add positively to our experience. Open world RP in unique locals should also be encouraged. When trolls emerge you can ignore and move on they are barely a blip on the radar. This is something the Summits have talked about to help the RP community as a whole with for years.
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
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Offline Noth

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #91 on: 10/07/17, 02:05:12 PM »
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I hope this is not the stance that is being taken by the leadership here,  would you mind clarifying please?

Iaera is just speaking for herself, Dezzrevas. We are a pretty decentralized community at this point. There's no official "leadership" to hold a stance, and there isn't some official stance we are taking towards non-RPers.

We haven't held a Summit of any kind for a long time. I think you need to let go of whatever old grudge you feel we are pushing...

A bunch of us are excited for the influx of new people. We get trolls when we RP in the open world regardless of server merge, and it sounds like BW is contemplating the idea of an RP instance. It's really not the end of the world. Our RP community is still going to center around our little community here since the other servers weren't dedicated RPers and don't have our infrastructure, some new people may find us for RP, and those of who do things outside RP will benefit by having new players to shorten queues and play with. It's a shame that we didn't merge with other RPers, and it's possible we'll eventually end up at megaservers through gradual merges, but regardless, we still have our community here that we've always had. Server merge doesn't mean we suddenly stop doing our events, hosting our RP, and RPing with each other.
Pubs

Bren: Jedi Archaeologist // Iirim: Padawan Spook // Zorru: Jedi Recruiter // Aybekk: Padawan Nerd
Seirion: Zabrak Armyman // Varooth: Iridonian Politician // Ayrak Malid: Arbiter of Clans // Telen: Tiny Slicer

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Urziya: Mandalorian 'Diplomat' // Majia: Pirate Princess // Athuuna: Agent Cyberneticist // Zhekrazh: Mysterious Sith

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #92 on: 10/07/17, 03:56:59 PM »
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I find this line of thought to be problematic. What I read from it is most non-rp types are toxic and that statement is a gross mischaracterization of entire sections of the SWTOR community. Not to mention it sounds like an intent to be dismissive of players from other backgrounds in gaming that may be interested or never had an opportunity to learn about rp in a real way.

I hope this is not the stance that is being taken by the leadership here,  would you mind clarifying please?

I was inelegantly venting my frustration with the decision making in the upcoming merge. I don't have a problem with non-RPers at all and I'm quite happy to share a server with them... but it's also true that MMOs have a longstanding tradition of more mature non-RPers gravitating toward RP servers while the toxic kids, broadly speaking, tend to avoid them. In other words, RPer or not, RP server populations tend to self-select to be somewhat less toxic overall.

Further diluting that self-selecting population, then, just feels like insult to injury when we're not getting merged with the only other remaining NA server with a similar community. Toxic kids are a fact of internet life, but they're mercifully less common on servers like BC and so I'm not really happy about this situation.

If there's folks who are curious about RP and have just never been exposed to it, that's cool and I always try to make time for new or would-be RPers; I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the proverbial 13 year old Call of Duty kiddie.
"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Iaera Farworlder - Jedi Master, lightsaber instructor, Jedi Custodum
Sibyl-ko Tanaji - ex-punk, fighter pilot, Argent Squadron
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Offline NovaZero

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #93 on: 10/07/17, 09:58:17 PM »
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I'm with Noth on this -- the new blood is always welcome. My time is erratic and as far as NA times are concerned -- I'm an alien so no stakes there.

I welcome toxic personalities. When PVP is no challenge at all, it's quite something to be the mute arbiter of their incoming doom. For RP we already have the tools to self-police. Open world RP has, for me, been like an RPer's dating service where we get the feel of things then cozy up in more intimate environments.
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Offline Mourne

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #94 on: 10/09/17, 12:03:14 AM »
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I normally wouldn't weigh in on this conversation since I hung up my RP cloak long ago, but I do feel I have some "skin in the game" given I've dwelt on BC since nearly day 1, and I've been playing MMORPGs of one form or another for nearly 3 decades (to include text-based MUX). That said, my experience supports Iaera's point of view.

While I don't have time to RP anymore, I do respect it (which is implicit when you roll on an RP server, imo) and support it. The reason I came to BC in the first month of the game was because RP servers usually attract more mature populations. That's obviously a generalization, and there are always exceptions to that. My guild, for instance, has always maintained a more mature, respectful reputation while being PvP centric. And I've also encountered RPers on this server who were godmodding d-bags. The point is, I chose to come here and that decision was based on the premise that RP communities tend to be more mature, and for the most part, that has been true.

Unfortunately, a server merger takes that choice away from players. While we desperately needed a population injection, many of the players on PvP servers are not mature. Many of them are Epeening internet tough guys who spew vitriol and troll/grief other players with impunity because they can safely hide behind their internet anonymity. Harbinger is no exception here, and is in many ways the poster child of PvP communities. There are people here who have been to Harbinger that can attest to that.

But as Noth said, I don't think this necessarily spells doom for the BC community. I do believe that the initial few months will be painful as playstyles and age disparity inevitably clash. Harbinger and BC are basically polar opposites, and Bioware does a poor job of policing bad behavior. I predict that a lot of RP will move to private venues to avoid open trolling/griefing, and ignore lists are going to explode. Eventually, as with all MMOs, we'll reach some sort of equilibrium, but the community will inexorably change. We will at least enjoy shorter queues for FPs and WZs, and guilds will be able to fatten their rosters again. We shouldn't undervalue that in terms of game longevity. Let's face it, without players to play with, the game will die.

I do however echo the sentiment that I'm extremely dismayed at Bioware's apparent lack of concern for the RP community, which essentially constitutes a very loyal portion of their player base, and I'm at a loss to explain or understand why they aren't merging us with another RP server. An RP instance seems more like an after-thought for damage control than out of any actual consideration for the affected players.

In summary, I'm not looking forward to the drama that's sure to follow in the wake of this merger, but I'm going to make the best of it and take full advantage of the influx of players to find those who can make my guild better and stronger. For the original BC community, in particular the RPers, know that you'll always have my support and I'll always make my SHs available for RP.
« Last Edit: 10/09/17, 11:05:24 AM by Mourne »

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #95 on: 10/10/17, 05:27:05 PM »
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I hope this is not the stance that is being taken by the leadership here,  would you mind clarifying please?

Iaera is just speaking for herself, Dezzrevas. We are a pretty decentralized community at this point. There's no official "leadership" to hold a stance, and there isn't some official stance we are taking towards non-RPers.

We haven't held a Summit of any kind for a long time. I think you need to let go of whatever old grudge you feel we are pushing...

Sorry for the few days without responding the studies are taking more and more time of mine. I didn't mean my statement as an attack for the record.  I apologize if my words were understood differently.

I was once an arbiter so the only leadership understanding of this site is from that time and a little after. When I was an arbiter there was a leadership coordinated response to events as well as weekly conversations about them in special forums. Also the official stance by the leadership the last time I was online every day just about was RP is the only thing we care about everything else is an after thought non priority that will not have official sanction here. Which is what I was told when I became an arbiter no longer.  It should also be noted that this site does not have the help channels for pve or pvp content included in the faq/guide as further proof of that stance. I may have missed the memo in leadership style changes in my several jaunts where I couldn't get the time to log in here due to my studies or while I was perusing stories.


I was inelegantly venting my frustration with the decision making in the upcoming merge. I don't have a problem with non-RPers at all and I'm quite happy to share a server with them... but it's also true that MMOs have a longstanding tradition of more mature non-RPers gravitating toward RP servers while the toxic kids, broadly speaking, tend to avoid them. In other words, RPer or not, RP server populations tend to self-select to be somewhat less toxic overall.

Thank you for helping me understand I look forward to the server merge and helping this place be as welcoming as possible for everyone.

The Begeren Community committee had several small meetings and recently held another summit at the end of August. That meeting was mostly to decide where and what we should do as the summer ends and we saw lowering population. The answer was do the best we could with what we had. We confirmed convictions to help the server in any way we could. Opening more of our guild events to everyone and doing coop operations and world bosses together. Honestly it was more of the same, so it really didn't warrant a special post here.

Currently the Begeren Community committee is discussing how to help small guilds survive the merge. As well as how to optimize bringing BC's Values to Satele Shan and keep our sense of community as we merge with other communities, with being as welcoming as possible. If you have an interest in the discussion we now converse mostly in mass post mails in engin to everyone connected to http://begerencommunityhq.enjin.com/

In any case I will be here to help bring more rpers to the community and help facilitate entrance into end game content for any rper who wishes to learn about the game play aspects in Star Wars The Old Republic. With the help of the Begeren Community HQ and this site hopefully we can bring some of the values we all cherish to our new server Satele Shan.

« Last Edit: 10/10/17, 06:11:23 PM by Dezzrevas »
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #96 on: 10/10/17, 08:33:27 PM »
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Good news everybody, Harbinger is showing little more population than we already have on BC. I really doubt die hard trolls will hang around when the pickings are that thin. We should be fine.
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Online Iaera

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #97 on: 10/10/17, 08:34:41 PM »
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Annoyed as I am with the logistics of the merge, I am pleasantly surprised by the depth and breadth of the GSF update. It's almost too much... I'm going to have to tinker with it quite a bit to fully grok what could be a radically-altered GSF scene.
"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Fiat justitia ruat clum

Iaera Farworlder - Jedi Master, lightsaber instructor, Jedi Custodum
Sibyl-ko Tanaji - ex-punk, fighter pilot, Argent Squadron
also many alts i never play ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #98 on: 10/10/17, 09:34:30 PM »
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Hopefully we'll get that GSF classroom soon.
Check my profile for links my short story and art work threads.

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Offline Orell

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #99 on: 10/24/17, 02:22:30 PM »
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So, this was a thing I'm... not remotely surprised they did, but it's definitely in the "Should've fucking said so earlier" area: All North American servers are now being housed in the same datacenter on the east coast.

Quote
From http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9449612#edit9449612

We have completed the upgrade of the Game Servers along with all their supporting infrastructure in the Data Centers. We made a large investment of new hardware and software and one of our primary goals was to substantially reduce our footprint while improving our overall server capacity. During our evaluation of the new servers, we determined we could also combine our North American datacenters. That also occurred today and we have officially moved out of our West Coast location. Our testing showed no impact on the gameplay experience, but we expect some of you playing on formerly West Coast servers may see higher ping times. Well use the next two weeks to smooth out any kinks and resolve any performance issues encountered.

So, yeah, if your ping times have suddenly spiked after this maintenance, this is why...
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Offline Mourne

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #100 on: 10/24/17, 02:32:36 PM »
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While the drop in performance may be difficult for some at first, they will eventually get that smoothed out. The bigger picture here is very encouraging. They spent a LOT of money - likely in the millions - to move data centers and consolidate servers. Having been involved with that in my IT career, I can tell you it's a lot of work to make sure it all happens without impacting the production environment (us, the players).

The point is they wouldn't have invested that kind of money if they were planning on giving up on the game, as I've heard some doomsayers rumormongering. Additionally, the new server architecture should enable them to develop cross-server queues and other features that should have been in the game since the beginning. As the saying goes, better late than never.

Offline Orell

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #101 on: 10/24/17, 02:41:30 PM »
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While the drop in performance may be difficult for some at first, they will eventually get that smoothed out.

Unlikely.

I'm sure there's some server-side issues that are fixable, of course, but there's going to be a noteable increase in network latency that's permanent, just because us west-coasters are connecting to servers on the East Coast instead of the West Coast (well... probably Las Vegas if I had to put my money on a location). There's not much that can be done about that.

The bigger picture here is very encouraging. They spent a LOT of money - likely in the millions - to move data centers and consolidate servers. Having been involved with that in my IT career, I can tell you it's a lot of work to make sure it all happens without impacting the production environment (us, the players).

The point is they wouldn't have invested that kind of money if they were planning on giving up on the game, as I've heard some doomsayers rumormongering. Additionally, the new server architecture should enable them to develop cross-server queues and other features that should have been in the game since the beginning. As the saying goes, better late than never.

That's... optimistic.

Honestly, this feels like more consolidation to save money. Yes, nice that they pulled it off without breaking the game, but this move likely lowered the number of machines they needed to rent for the game. Stuff like Login can be handled by one server instead of two, for example.

They're not giving up on the game, of course. If they wanted to do that, they wouldn't be developing more content for it. But it just feels a lot more like this is some heavy belt-tightening, to reduce expenses. Given the place SWTOR is in, it's an understandable move.

But that doesn't excuse the communication failure.
« Last Edit: 10/24/17, 02:47:25 PM by Orell »
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Noth

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #102 on: 10/24/17, 02:45:00 PM »
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While the drop in performance may be difficult for some at first, they will eventually get that smoothed out. The bigger picture here is very encouraging. They spent a LOT of money - likely in the millions - to move data centers and consolidate servers. Having been involved with that in my IT career, I can tell you it's a lot of work to make sure it all happens without impacting the production environment (us, the players).

The point is they wouldn't have invested that kind of money if they were planning on giving up on the game, as I've heard some doomsayers rumormongering. Additionally, the new server architecture should enable them to develop cross-server queues and other features that should have been in the game since the beginning. As the saying goes, better late than never.

That's pretty comforting to hear, albeit, not looking forward to lag... I've been getting a bit worried given the number of "limited time this week only!!!" re-releases they've been doing of old stuff.
Pubs

Bren: Jedi Archaeologist // Iirim: Padawan Spook // Zorru: Jedi Recruiter // Aybekk: Padawan Nerd
Seirion: Zabrak Armyman // Varooth: Iridonian Politician // Ayrak Malid: Arbiter of Clans // Telen: Tiny Slicer

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Urziya: Mandalorian 'Diplomat' // Majia: Pirate Princess // Athuuna: Agent Cyberneticist // Zhekrazh: Mysterious Sith

Online SquigglyV

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #103 on: 10/24/17, 03:03:25 PM »
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I don't think this is really a bad sign or a good sign. We don't know Bioware's motives at all, this could mean anything really, I think it's probably just a cost saving measure.

Also, MMOs really don't require a low ping, and most of them seem to have excellent lag compensation anyway. GW2 has a much faster pace and you can still easily play with like 300-400ms of ping, so a game with combat as sluggish as SWTOR shouldn't have any issues whatsoever.

I'm on the east coast and my average ping on BC is 120ms, I have never noticed any sort of stuttering or other issues at that speed. So I think it's a huge overreaction to say that this is a major problem, especially compared to the dozens of other things they're fucking up massively.

They spent a LOT of money - likely in the millions - to move data centers and consolidate servers.

I guarantee you it didn't cost anywhere near that much.

The point is they wouldn't have invested that kind of money if they were planning on giving up on the game, as I've heard some doomsayers rumormongering. Additionally, the new server architecture should enable them to develop cross-server queues and other features that should have been in the game since the beginning. As the saying goes, better late than never.

SWTOR isn't failing yet imo, but still are we really pretending that EA isn't dumb enough to pump tons of cash into a dying or dead end game? They do that all the time. And I doubt they're gonna do cross-server queues, if they haven't done it by now then I think we can say for sure that it's not coming.

The real question is, if they're moving everything to the east coast, why the hell did they merge by coast and not by something reasonable? Like, I dunno, putting all the roleplayers together and leaving those PvP cunts on harbinger out? Or even just putting all of the servers together like GW2 did, then nobody would be left out ever.
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Offline LVT

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #104 on: 10/24/17, 03:40:59 PM »
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Maybe someday they'll make East and West shards/instances that we can choose to connect to on the fly. Latency would be dependent on the shard you connected to, but if you wanna play with your friend on east, it just an instance switch. I'm not sure why servers are still isolated.
Turari (29, Major, jr. grade CEDF)     Silivia Fenir (21, Freighter Captain)
Lashila Sellara (25, Grey Sith)         Harkasone Milan (29, Philanthropist)
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