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Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Darshendros on Today at 12:45:10 PM »
Oh... Wait... Yeah, that's right. I just remembered a whole Rebels episode talking about fuel now. Damnit, Jim.
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Iaera on Today at 12:23:16 PM »
Um, actually...

From Phantom Menace:

Ric Oliť: "There's not enough power to get us to Coruscant. The hyperdrive is leaking."
Qui-gon: "We'll have to land somewhere to repair and refuel the ship."

And there's a similar exchange in Empire Strikes Back.

Furthermore, Star Wars has never even tried to bother with anything resembling real physics. The entire Death Star battle in A New Hope is a WW2 torpedo bombing and dogfighting scene but with a space skin slapped over it. Star Wars space stuff has always behaved as if it's in an atmosphere (the relevant physics snag; zero-g has nothing to do with it. Atmosphere creates drag, which bleeds off the kinetic energy of a moving object as heat through friction).
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Darshendros on Today at 11:55:02 AM »
This came up in an Episode 8 group I joined. (also, that's me)

Oh, whoops. Just realized it cut off the whole comment. Here it is:

This is what really bothered me though: Assuming your ship's going at full thrust to flee from the colossal dreadnaught bombarding you, your ship doesn't slow down when it runs out of fuel and power goes offline. It's going to still be going the same speed, just adrift in space, 'cuz zero gravity and physics. If anything, getting hit by cannons would only push them out farther. So, in theory, those cruisers should have survived.

@Iaera: I agree with all points.
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Iaera on Today at 11:41:43 AM »
Also, am I the only one that kinda wished Rey joined Kylo? I mean, the Resistance woulda been fucked as a result, but it's not like she was doing anything else for them. Then Finn could've become the hero he secretly wants to be!

I think that would certainly have been interesting and not unjustified, but although I think it fits well it also runs contrary to the narrative they want to present. I liked Rey at first, but the more I think about it, the less I like what they're doing with her. I don't want to say too much on this point because it gets into socio-political commentary, so I'll just say that I think Disney is rather cynically exploiting some fashionable social trends and Rey's character suffers as a result.

A Rey that joins Kylo would have been fitting, and actually a very, very interesting moral story that perfectly fits the times we live in. She has no education, no philosophy, no grounding in any skill, discipline, or social responsibility... the perfect candidate to buy into Kylo's tyranny as his #1 Useful Idiot. Which I think is the sort of slap-in-the-face wake-up call 2017 needed.
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Darshendros on Today at 10:31:28 AM »
Also, am I the only one that kinda wished Rey joined Kylo? I mean, the Resistance woulda been fucked as a result, but it's not like she was doing anything else for them. Then Finn could've become the hero he secretly wants to be!
Cantina / Re: Monthly CM Giveaway!
« Last post by Glimm on Today at 09:36:07 AM »
Nice! Kids like their new toons new gear! Thank you :)
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Darshendros on Today at 09:27:37 AM »

1: Luke didn't try to kill his strongest student. He had a moment of horror and terror at seeing Ben's darkness, activated his Lightsaber in response... and then the moment passed.

And Ben awoke to see his mentor standing over him with a weapon ready, and assumed the worst. Totally understandable reaction by Ben, but still tragic.

That's assuming Luke's telling the truth. Jedi lie ALL THE TIME. XD
Holocrons and Info Nodes / Blue Lady Blues
« Last post by Joshmaul on Today at 06:20:27 AM »
She felt more than a twinge of anger and bitterness in her heart as her speeder left the Dancer's Palace to return to Mezenti Spaceport. She knew it would be there, but after close to a decade, she had not expected it to still hurt this much. Oh, she had kept up a brave face in front of the others, including the loud drunk human who had been pounding his chest in her ear most of the night, and that opportunist Quarasha. If there was one thing she had learned after all this time, it was to hide her true feelings to avoid giving anyone an opening to use against her. Even in the more "progressive" Empire since Acina had taken power, a Sith was still a Sith.

But today, the memories came back hard. She remembered the days when she had been known as Kelt'hal'irisai, or Thali for short. She had been a young conscript in the Household Phalanx to House Torv, to which her family had been associated for more than a century and a half. Those days were long past. In a way, her old self had died that day she had arrived on Reydovan Prime, when that Cathar's cold gaze had fallen upon her.

Now, she was called Nemiya, Lord of the Sith.

Not a day went by, these past few years, where she didn't curse Varan for taking her with him from Csilla. She had felt her powers awaken when she was fifteen, and had taken great pains to hide them - from Varan, from his father Aristocra Valsar, and from society as a whole. She had seen what had happened to Veerak, Varan's younger brother. Though Varan had stood by him in the Empire, that didn't matter for much in the Ascendancy - and neither had Varan's war record.

After Varan had killed Valsar, ostensibly for his acts of treason against the Ascendancy in trying to break their alliance with the Empire, House Torv's Phalanx had experienced a schism, where Varan had taken part of the guard with him to serve as his elite force while he commanded the Imperial Reydovan Defense Force, the planet's militia. The remainder rallied under Varan's uncle and semi-namesake, General Verane, who had taken over as Aristocra and exiled Varan from the Ascendancy. Not too long afterward, he had offered clemency for anyone in Varan's guard who wanted to come home.

Thali, as she had been then, had considered it, in spite of the risk. Even at that young age, she had thought serving in the Empire seemed too cutthroat a business. But then she had met her Master...


"You possess gift, just as I did when I was gladiator." Lord Tethik Nadun spoke thickly accented and broken Basic, but the ice in his stare and the lightsaber at his belt made her wary of mocking him for his speech. So did the next four words he spoke, clearly and bluntly: "You feel the Force."

Thali's red eyes had widened in sudden terror. "You must be mistaken. I'm nobody. I'm just a conscript..."

"Nonsense," Tethik replied, waving a dismissive hand. "Force brings you with Varan, brings you to me. It is sign. Just as when Darth Cyanoculus find me on Korriban. Force wills it. Destiny. You are meant to be Sith. You are meant to be apprentice. My apprentice." He smiled, showing fangs. "I train you, as I trained."

Rather than being honored or excited, Thali looked equal parts terrified and sickened. "No, you don't understand. You can't."

"Can't?" The Cathar stared at her like she had grown another head. "You say I can't? Who are you to say?"

"You don't understand! I've kept this from my family, my commanders, even Varan - and he would know better than anyone about my impurity! I can't risk this getting out."

"Impurity?" Tethik looked genuinely confused. "Force is not impurity. Force is gift! Force is power!"

"The Force is an aberration, in the eyes of my people. They tolerate its use in the Empire, but it's rare among my people...and it's not allowed. Anyone who is shown to be able to use it is given a choice - surgery, or exile. Anyone who uses their powers in the Ascendancy is executed for it. Varan's brother, Veerak - they banished him, and he had no choice but to come here. That's why Varan is staying in the Empire now." Actually, word was the new Aristocra had banished Varan for killing his anti-Imperial father, but that was beside the point. "If you send me to Korriban, they'll know, and I'll never be able to go home!" Thali's expression was pleading. "You don't understand...."

"Not understand, no," Tethik agreed, his expression surprisingly sympathetic. "My family is dead. My home, Ord Mantell, barely remember. Before I was Sith, I was slave, gladiator to amuse Hutts. Then I was slave to stupid Imperial. Force freed me, brought me to Korriban. I never had choice in life...but you do." His expression had hardened, and that stare...how she wished she could avoid that stare. "Consider choice you have, Thali. Either return to Ascendancy, and be killed; refuse to go to Korriban, and be killed; or train on Korriban, and live, but never go home again." Again, a hint of sympathy. "Hard choice. But one you make."

"You're forcing me to choose under threat of death. How is that still my choice?"

Tethik gave a slight shrug. "It is choice we all make, every day. We choose life, or death. Death at own hands, or get killed in stupid charge - still choice, even if stupid choice. Darth Malagant was Veerak's Master. He say Veerak made choice. He chose to train, to use gift of Force. He also chose treason against Malagant, chose death - but he made choice."

Thali seemed to absorb this, and Tethik smiled again, showing fangs. "You make choice now, too. You have gift. With all you know of what Empire will do, of what Ascendancy will do, what say you? Use gift, or reject? Live...or die?"


She still thought fondly of her Master, even after all this time, even with this doubt she felt. She was about the same age now that Tethik had been when he had fallen on Nikaea...

After her training on Korriban under the direction of the aged Overseer Charva (who had also overseen Tethik's instruction when he was at the Academy), she had joined him in the field hunting for the traitor Darth Verulam and his ally, Jedi Master Merken Netalis, and had cleared out a "temple" - here on Nar Shaddaa, ironically enough - dedicated to Revan and his mad crusade. After Revan had fallen on Yavin 4, Malagant, Tethik, and Varan had led a force to Nikaea to finish off Verulam and his remaining loyalists. Tethik had taken a barrage of assault cannon fire intended for Malagant, and Malagant had responded by slaying the shooter - Republic soldier Melena Linavil - on the spot.

To honor her Master, Nemiya had gone from focusing solely on her bladework to following in the strengths he had encouraged in her - moving and attacking in the shadows, seeking knowledge (she had spent a lot of time in the Academy archives during her time on Korriban, so that came naturally to her), and protecting the Empire from its enemies both within and without. It had been a task she began to relish when Acina had taken power, becoming one of the new regime's shadowy enforcers - maintaining the peace imposed by Arcann, yet still hoping (and secretly helping to prepare) for the day when the Empire could rise up and overthrow the Zakuulan usurpers. She had begun to believe what Tethik had told her, that the Force was not an impurity, not a curse, but a gift.

Throughout the occupation, she had not thought about what had become of the Ascendancy. They had not cared about her, and so she was not entirely sure she had cared about them. But after Copero, the Ascendancy seemed to be back in the news - and the memories seemed to be back in her head. That purist fool in the Palace hadn't helped with that, either...nor had the strange connection of her mind on seeing the silly Life Day decorations, and remarking on the oddity of seeing snow indoors, that the only way you saw snow indoors on Csilla is if the roof caved in. It was days like this that made her doubt the "gift" she had been given.

As she stepped out of the speeder to make her way back to the ship, Nemiya's thoughts again drifted to Varan, cursing him again, and remembering how he had met his end in a Sith power play, a war of wills between Malagant and his twisted "creation", Darth Insomnius. Part of her had wished that she had been able to get her hands around Varan's neck and strangle the life from him for making her feel like a pariah amongst her own people. Yet there was a part of her mind that knew it was not his fault. Varan had merely brought her to the Empire, not knowing she was Force-sensitive...because she had not told him. And even when he had discovered it, just as he had done with Veerak, he had been supportive of it, clearly not of the same line of idiots as his father and uncle had been (and that his cousins, Verane's heirs, were now). It was the ruling elite in the Ascendancy, with their stubborn, narrow mindviews, that was the problem.

Damn them, she seethed. Damn them all.

As she made her way back to her ship, the Imperial troops guarding Mezenti Spaceport took one look at the scowl on her face, and made it a point to keep their distance. Hell hath no fury, as the old saying went - and it was even worse with Sith...
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Orell on 12/15/17, 08:31:15 PM »
Seriously, who the fuck is Snoke?

...effectively? He's redundant. He was put in Force Awakens because they needed a big bad (because Kylo Ren wasn't ready for that role), but now that Kylo's stepping into the shoes of the main antagonist, he's not needed anymore. It's annoying that he was built up so much in Force Awakens, but I'm okay with getting rid of a redundant, unimpressive villain.

On that note, Luke is a terrible teacher. Considering he was trained by Yoda, you'd think he'd have done at least a half decent job and, y'know, not try to kill his strongest student. Then again, Yoda was also half-mad by that time, so... yeah. Grumpy Hermit Luke was entertaining, at least, but now I see why Mark Hamill wasn't happy about it. Lol he called it a laser sword.

1: Luke didn't try to kill his strongest student. He had a moment of horror and terror at seeing Ben's darkness, activated his Lightsaber in response... and then the moment passed.

And Ben awoke to see his mentor standing over him with a weapon ready, and assumed the worst. Totally understandable reaction by Ben, but still tragic.

2: I think what I like about Luke as an awful teacher is that it's related to the Legend bit. Luke only heard about the Jedi of old as legends, and so he sought to act like them, emulate them, but he forgot that those Jedi were people, fallible and flawed. And it's important because...

Rey has become a Mary Sue and I'm angry about that. >:l The trailers made it look like Luke was actually training her, but he didn't do jack shit other than show her how to meditate. And why was she so afraid to ask him to teach her? Isn't that the primary reason she went to him? Oh, but wait, she already knows everything she needs to know. 'cuz Plot and Yoda said so. At least Kylo has an excuse for being as powerful as he is. >:l

1: She's not a mary sue. She has a lot of raw power, absolutely, but look at what happens on Snoke's ship: She gets tossed around by Snoke with ease and when the fighting happens after Snoke's death, she's having trouble with one non-Forcer with a fancy weapon, while Kylo's holding his own 3v1.

In TFA, she had only beaten Kylo after he had been gutshot by Chewie, emotionally compromised by murdering his father and worn out by a surprisingly competitive fight against Finn... and this film makes it clear, Rey might be as strong in the Force as Kylo, but she doesn't really know what to do with it. The only thing impressive she does with just use of the Force is lifting a bunch of rocks.

As for the training...

2: The point of Rey's visit wasn't for her to get a big training montage and learn how to fight Shii-cho style. There should've been more of that, but hopefully we'll get a time skip in Ep9 where they can actually say "she practiced a bunch here". It's more about that Legends thing, because she leaves the island not thinking of Luke as this grand legend to follow... but as just another person, trying to do the right thing but fucking it up along the way.

Poor Weasley is in an abusive relationship. Can't wait to see all the lewd fan art that comes out of that.

...starts the film being mocked, ends the film being mocked, the slashfics are going to be amazing!

Moral of the story? Follow your superior officer's orders and don't talk to creepy boys in your head.

...you know, if the new trinity of Poe, Finn and Ray had just sat down and done what they were told, Luke would still be alive (and grumpy, and misguided, but still), the Resistance casualty rate would be on the order of 10%, instead of like 99.9%, and they'd have this well fortified and hidden position where they could regroup instead of being on the run again.

But Snoke and Phasma would still be alive (assuming she died). Still, I think it comes out ahead for the good guys there >_>.
Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« Last post by Iaera on 12/15/17, 08:25:56 PM »
Moral of the story? Follow your superior officer's orders and don't talk to creepy boys in your head.

you have resolved my angst thank you

tbf 'don't talk to creepy boys' is good advice in general

I'm going to use Iaera's post as a spine for my own thoughts, out of respect, and also because I disagree in fundamental ways and I love The Discourse.

Thanks for the post! I'm going to have to mull over it. I'm not sure I agree with much regarding the meat of the film though... maybe it will change on a follow-up viewing, but I doubt it. I've been gnawing this movie all day from every angle and while there are details I like about it, I can't find much value in its core.

Though as I said previously... I do appreciate that at least there's something there that can be debated and thought about, which in my book is worth a thousand Force Awakens, even if Force Awakens was a movie I think I find more fun to watch. I'm the same way with Quentin Tarantino's movies... I don't particularly like them, but at least I can respect them even if I'd have more fun watching a Seth Rogen dumpster fire.
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