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Author Topic: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens  (Read 15842 times)

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Offline Orell

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #30 on: 12/20/15, 02:47:05 PM »
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One bit that makes the Poe stuff make a lot more sense: http://io9.gizmodo.com/wait-redacted-was-supposed-to-die-in-the-force-awake-1748949179

Apparently Poe was supposed to have died in the crash initially, but Abrams relented and kept him around.

And honestly, that was a GREAT decision. Him showing up again and spending more time with Finn did a ton to make the character stronger, but since it wasn't in the original cards, they could only change the story so much, hence why he was gone for a lot of it.

Also, found this in the comments:

« Last Edit: 12/20/15, 02:54:30 PM by Orell »
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Tyria

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #31 on: 12/20/15, 04:04:39 PM »
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Ah, I've found important info that would've been nice to have explained in the movie itself. https://www.imgur.com/QLGdlDS

ALSO, been thinking... It's possible that Rey could be Kylo's sister and Han/Leia didn't want to freak her out by telling her the truth.
« Last Edit: 12/20/15, 04:17:32 PM by Tyria »

Offline Sasmi

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #32 on: 12/20/15, 04:21:25 PM »
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I did not know that Frank Oz, Ewan McGregor, and Alec Guinness all had  lines in the movie.  Frank Oz and Ewan McGregor actually came back to reprise their roles in the movie and they did a bit of movie editing to include Alec Guinness voice in it. 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

@Orell - Slice Rey out of that image I would love it!

Offline Crimsen

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #33 on: 12/20/15, 04:55:53 PM »
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That was amazing.

Offline Hawking

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #34 on: 12/20/15, 05:16:37 PM »
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I did not know that Frank Oz, Ewan McGregor, and Alec Guinness all had  lines in the movie.  Frank Oz and Ewan McGregor actually came back to reprise their roles in the movie and they did a bit of movie editing to include Alec Guinness voice in it. 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

@Orell - Slice Rey out of that image I would love it!

Yep.
You can pretty clearly hear Obi Wan yell Rey's name during the flashback sequence at Maz's.

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Offline Sebrik

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #35 on: 12/20/15, 05:36:53 PM »
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Offline blingdenston

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #36 on: 12/20/15, 06:19:20 PM »
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I enjoyed this.  The characters, as with every Abrams effort, are the prime attraction, followed by the action, with the plot coming in dead last.  Up until the part where the cast heads for Exposition Planet to meet with Edna Moda (seriously - http://images2.fanpop.com/image/quiz/397000/397789_1270928885757_282_216.jpg ), I thought we were going at a nice clip.

Then we get the pastiche part, where the inexplicable Rebels (make us buy and read supplemental materials to understand the plot, dammit rassum frassum) attack the Star-Deather in their X-Wings and stop it from blowing up Yavin V.  This isn't even bad...we get the damsel rescuing herself, some good sneaky-deaky stuff from Han and Finn the Human (I see literally no reason to doubt the 'stolen baby stormtroopers' idea)...but I really wanted to see something the likes of which we haven't seen before.

Side notes: General Hufflepuff of the First Order could use some better lines, give him a BIT more character. 

Almost literally facepalmed when Threepio explained to Ball2-D2 that Trashcan2-D2 couldn't POSSIBLY have the rest of the map in him... 

I hope Supreme Leader Gollum actually IS a giant, that'd be pretty neat. 

Would've liked to see some new, sleek looking Y-wings and B-wings. 

Can't wait for the continuing adventures of Finn, Stormjanitor of the Resistance. 

Really, really glad that the bad guys aren't just the resurrected Sith (unless Hawkguy's right, in which case...sigh...)...makes the struggle and triumph of the last movies really feel important. 

Kind of wish the Knights of Ren didn't just look like they're from Mordor.  I do like how different Kylo feels from Darth Vader...stringier, more animated, less in control. 

SO FUCKING GLAD Boba Fett ain't in there. 

Guess this canonizes the 'light side' of the Force (previously, it was referred to in the movies as just the Force, or as the 'good side')...but they made the 'light side' and the Jedi feel like the 'real' agents of the Force, and the dark side and all of its acolytes to be 'pretenders', so I'm down.

REALLY glad they didn't throw lots of jumpcuts and flashing frames and stuff for Kylo Ren's mind-whammy torture stuff...they were confident enough that the audience was sold on the Force that they just let it come through in the acting and sound design.

Weird to see Greg Grunberg in a Star Wars movie...I remember he was talking about how he wanted to play Harry Mudd in Star Trek Into Badness, so I guess it could've been worse.  He could've been...I dunno, Randy Porkins.  Huh.  His name is 'Snap Wexley'.  That's a pretty good name.  Not as good as Randy Porkins, but pretty good.

Oh, God, I just found out they're re-remaking 'The Blob'.  What the fuck, guys?

I've completely lost track of where I was.  Something about Star Trek?  I'm gonna get some ham and some sleep.
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Offline Esk

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #37 on: 12/20/15, 06:44:32 PM »
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Can't wait for the continuing adventures of Finn, Stormjanitor of the Resistance. 

I can't wait either. Finn is awesome! Although, the saber angle that inflicted his injury, and the fact that he hasn't woken up yet by the end of the movie, makes me think that he may be dealing with permanent sequelae from the fight. I hope he keeps his lovable personality! :)

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Offline Orell

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #38 on: 12/20/15, 09:40:25 PM »
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REALLY glad they didn't throw lots of jumpcuts and flashing frames and stuff for Kylo Ren's mind-whammy torture stuff...they were confident enough that the audience was sold on the Force that they just let it come through in the acting and sound design.

Yeah, this is a great point. Rey turning the mind-whammy against Ren is a fantastic scene that, through only music cues and the actors performances, shows the mind-war slowly going in Rey's favor, and her final line just clinches it. It's not the sort of scene you'd expect to see from a blockbuster film, and I'm glad it made it into the final cut without getting killed by crosscuts.
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Skystrike

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #39 on: 12/20/15, 09:54:03 PM »
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"....the people that knew him the most said he went looking for the first Jedi temple..."
did anyone else just hope and pray that that was Tython. From everything we saw in the movie, the writers are cherry picking things from the EU. I seriously think it could be.

"Ill Destroy you...Ill just have to destroy you. All of you who do things like this! Ill Eliminate you all by myself!"

Offline Sasmi

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #40 on: 12/21/15, 01:05:47 PM »
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Daniel Craig might have been in TFA as well.  You will remember him too, if the source is to be trusted.  He is the stormtrooper that Rey mind controls to escape.

Source: http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/642571-force-awakens-cameos-by-ewan-mcgregor-frank-oz-daniel-craig-confirmed

Offline Isarii

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #41 on: 12/21/15, 01:54:14 PM »
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One of my favorite parts about the movie was that, despite it being absolutely filled with allusions and call-backs to the original trilogy, they did almost nothing to remind you that the prequels exist - which was appreciated.

Lightsaber choreography reverting to the more brutal and emotionally charged style of the OT was also great to see. The over-the-top Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon style fights in the prequels, while they looked cool, did very little to show you anything about what the characters were thinking, or how they felt.

Offline Orell

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #42 on: 12/21/15, 03:58:37 PM »
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Lightsaber choreography reverting to the more brutal and emotionally charged style of the OT was also great to see. The over-the-top Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon style fights in the prequels, while they looked cool, did very little to show you anything about what the characters were thinking, or how they felt.

Some truth to this, but I'd still like to see them fight with a bit more elegance as they get better trained, for two important reasons:

1: It's more fun to watch, damn it! I can be petty!

2: One of my favorite Lightsaber duels is the one in the original Clone Wars series between Ventris and Anakin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VB_vjVxcic

It starts out with the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon stuff, since Genndy Tartakovsky's Jedi and Sith make Starkiller look underpowered (and we love him for it). But as the battle goes longer, it gets more brutal, more harsh, because Anakin's calm is eroded throughout the fight.

The problem with the fights in prequels was that the fighting was always elegant and impressive, even when it probably shouldn't be. That doesn't mean we can't get some pretty pretty fight scenes, just that the action scripting needs to be as smart as the dialog.
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Iaera

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #43 on: 12/21/15, 05:07:36 PM »
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I agree with a lot of Orell's original post. Overall, I think it was decent as a Star Wars movie and I don't hate it, but I can't help but be disappointed in a lot of things in it. I'll need to go see it again, of course, and study it more...

Quick and dirty:

Characters!

For the most part, I really liked the characters. Both Finn and Rey are <3 <3 <3 4eva. They could have really screwed this up, but they didn't, and I'm glad. I really like that Rey is "the Jedi" (though I would have liked Finn too). I like the ex-Stormtrooper background. BB-8 is okay... though the lighter-thumbs-up bit was excellent.

Kylo Ren I'm a little less enthusiastic about... he's alright, and time will tell how he evolves, and I think he's cast well. But the movie very much throws "and heeeeere's Han & Leia's son! He's evil." at us... ok? Cool? I guess? Sorry you murdered your dad? That sucks, I guess? I don't know, I didn't really 'feel' the character that much. Obviously you can't replicate the Darth Vader effect, there's just no topping that, so I appreciate that they tried to go a different direction, but it felt only partially successful.

Snoke... I can't believe I'm saying this, but way too CGI. I'm not a CGI-hating practical-effects-purist by any means, but in this case, the CGI undercuts the character. It just feels like yet another generic DisneymarvelCGIsplosion villain. Compare to what they did with Ian McDiarmid - between the makeup and McDiarmid's take on the character, they turned "scrawny, wretched old sack of flesh" into a very nasty, very believable Big Bad. I'm not feeling it so much with Snoke.

Poe is good! ...For what we saw of him, anyway. He seems nice. Not much else to say at this point! Denis Lawson declined to reprise the role of Wedge Antilles, but Poe seems like a good replacement.

Visual Aesthetic

Good... not great. But good.

Jakku (which totes isn't Tatooine we swear it's totes diff) all looked good. Beat up old speeders. Galactic Civil War wreckage. Desert scavengers. All solid.

I really dig Captain Phasma's getup. A shame she seems so underused as the Boss Brute, but I like the general look and presentation.

The blasters... ooh boy. SARCASM INCOMING. Noooo, they totally didn't re-design the blasters so that when the toy-merchandising versions inevitably stock the shelves the plastic toy gun versions look exactly like the actual movie props... Needless to say I was very unimpressed with what little we saw of the blasters and other (?) weapons. Rey's gun looked kinda dumb in particular.

Most of the look and feel is Star Wars...ish. It's a little too Guardians of the Galaxy and not enough A New Hope. The monsters on Han Solo's Traveling Circus didn't feel like Star Wars at all to me, and definitely something out of GotG or some other Marvel-esque summer blockbuster CGIfest.

Sound Design

Because I'm a nerd about this topic! Again, it's good, but not great. I do want to give it a lot of credit though, because Star Wars is an audiophile's dream, and TFA got more right than they got wrong, which is hard to do. Most of the sound was good (I caught some T-70 X-wing engine wash effects which were very good, very faithful to the T-65), but there were a few jarring things which stuck out to me.

Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber. It's just a bit off. Moreso in the earlier scenes, less so in the fight with Kylo. It's too harsh, and while a good lightsaber effect has a lot of fat and meat to it, I think they went overboard. The ignition in particular wasn't good and didn't sound at all like Luke's first activation of it in Obi-wan Ben Larry Steve's hut.

The Falcon's laser cannons were also too sharp and guttural. Similar problems with the other blasters and lasers throughout the movie, but since they're new models it's more forgivable. The Falcon's lasers are already well-established, and very distinctively at that, and TFA's sounds didn't seem to line up well with that.

Few of the new sounds really jumped out and impressed. Kylo's saber was ok. Nothing else really grabbed me. Compare to the Theed troopers' blasters, the battle droid tank guns and subsequent impacts on the Gungan shields, half a dozen different pod racer effects, and of course the new and improved take on lightsaber combat from Phantom Menace.

World Building

As pretty much everyone else has pointed out... the movie really stumbles here. Where did the galaxy go? Other than Jakku, did any of these one-off planets even have (meaningful) names? Everybody knows Alderaan, Tatooine, Yavin IV, Hoth, Endor... even Coruscant and Naboo, and probably Mustafar, Utapau, Mygeeto, and Felucia, too. Not to mention the spice mines of Kessel, or the battle of Tanaab, or the Rebel fleet massing near Sullust...

The point being, all the prior Star Wars have always done an excellent job of dropping you into a vast, large, complicated galaxy - even just ANH by itself gave us tiny little glimpses at a huge universe. If you just watch ANH and nothing else, you'd never have any idea what Alderaan was like, what the Senate is all about, what the Clone Wars were or why Obi-wan was a general in them or why he worked with Leia's father... but you understood the relevance of all these things to the greater machinations of a moving, complex galaxy.

TFA, by contrast is... here's a planet, here's a planet, here's a planet, here's a planet that blows up other planets, here's a planet, roll credits. What? Not only does it drop the ball where ANH worked wonders, but it's a real problem when you have 6 prior movies with a well-established galaxy, and then TFA just... does nothing with it. Leia & Han might as well have just teleported into a new dimension after Return of the Jedi and picked up the story from there.

The "Resistance" I can kind of buy... it's... a little strange and feels like a silly spot to put the Good Guys in, but alright, I can kind of get behind it as a plausible-deniability Republic-funded counter...evil task force, or something. But the First Order... I'm unimpressed. It lacks the oppressive, militant gravitas of the Galactic Empire, nor does it have the looming menace of Darth Sidious lending it weight. It seems to be a bunch of wannabe-Stormtroopers with (literally) toy guns, led by Han Solo's confused son and a giant CGIsaurus. And their giant planet-killer planet might as well have just been named Death Star III: Bigger, Rounder, and Even More Shielded This Time (Really).

Now, with all that said, there was some stuff I really liked. Using Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber was awesome - it's a relic that's over 50 years old and dates back to the Clone Wars. That's a real, physical connection to the wider galaxy (which the film otherwise lacks), and it's awesome to see it now in Rey's hands. It's a powerful tool to tie everything together, since it touches each trilogy and each generation. Sadly, given the rest of the movie, it feels a bit wasted.

The T-70 X-wing is also a good touch. I don't like the visual design as much as the classic T-65 (all my <3 4eva), but it makes in-universe sense and it's a good way to show the progression of the galaxy as time marches forward. Like Bling said though, it would have been nice to see some other starfighters.

Conclusion

I think I have some more thoughts but they're all bouncing around my head incoherently, so I'll wrap up this stream-of-consciousness blathering.

A decent film. It opened strongly, stumbled around the middle and raggedly flopped onto the finish line. As Star Wars? It hit the major notes, in a general sense. The story and style and characters and action are all in the right ballpark, which is more than I can say for some EU material. But in the more specific sense, it's so painfully, clearly not George Lucas' Star Wars, but rather Disney Presents: The Star Wars Curated Fanfiction Show, Featuring All Your Favourite Characters!

I liked it, but in the same sense that I liked Guardians of the Galaxy - a fun, entertaining Star Wars knock-off. I'm going to have to see it again and refine my thoughts on it over time, but generally: Not as bad as I'd feared, not as good as I'd hoped.
« Last Edit: 12/21/15, 05:18:51 PM by Iaera »
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Offline Hawking

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Re: [TFA Spoilers] Thoughts on The Force Awakens
« Reply #44 on: 12/21/15, 10:32:34 PM »
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Heard a rumour that the planet Luke was on at the end was in fact Rakata Prime. RP popped up on a recent canonical guide to the universe, and it would sorta make sense in the context of the "first Jedi temple".
Not where it was in the original EU of course, but, I think making use of Rakata Prime to that end could be cool.

also 3PO red arm Spinoff when

Characters:

-Hawking Shatari, Master of Myserty
-Aspasia Maguire, Smack Talker
-Rieko "Boogie" Black, Agent of the Empire