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Author Topic: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...  (Read 2692 times)

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Offline Imazi

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #15 on: 08/27/17, 04:31:59 PM »
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I'm happy to use the giant corporation and its cross-faction ties to Republic and Independents as staging grounds/discussion starters for greater plot arcs!

I just can't come up with them myself.  I can't even come up with a story for just Karmic... :(

I can probably come up with a story, my problem is having time to get in game to run it. I've probably been in game all of 5 hours this whole month. :sigh:



As for the points that you bring up @Niarra, I'll defer to the people actively RPing. Since Imazi never really fit well into main line of Jedi RPs I can't really address what people might need beyond what I already suggested.
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Offline Zmaj

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #16 on: 08/27/17, 04:44:47 PM »
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If it were possible to manage, I think something that falls between #1 and #3 might be ideal. I don't know if it's possible to achieve, but in the interest of brain-storming I'll just ramble...

Maybe a bare bones neutral-as-possible "canon" for the background, something along the lines of: Both Acina and Malcom are alive and kicking; whichever one made the dumb move with the throne was seriously injured but recovered, and leave it at that. The Eternal Alliance is still an independent third party and whether it's leaning toward allying with the Republic or the Empire continues to be a hot issue of rumors and speculation and concern, with independent operatives having "intel" either way at any given time. Madon is Supreme Chancellor (that much is game canon at least) and the Jedi are no longer persona non grata (at least implied by the game canon scene of Satele on Coruscant). Jedi RP is still a little screwed even under this "neutral" take without a High Council, but so be it.

Obviously no one can (or should) god-mod other players into accepting any version of "community canon." But if a lot of folks say "Yeah, most of us generally just assume this neutral thing by default and if you've got a guild plot that goes another way that's cool, just might be hard to trot it out into an open event and not expect some pushback"... well, maybe that helps. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's not that different from what we normally do.

I think this is a good solution. That's part of why I made that summary post at the top. We are already for a large part playing in a shared continuity. We just need to codify it.

A guild summit like you mentioned would be doable, for sure, but I know there are also a lot of independents out there, and they deserve to have a voice in what we decide as a community as well.

I forgot about Madon. I'll add that into the summary post.

I agree with this approach as well.

Vague plot is a hindrance to development to a certain point. @Elym, @LVT, @Nicohlas and I have specifically had to improvise a lot about the Chiss Ascendency because they just don't tell us anything, and it makes approximately zero sense not to have by now. But in the wake of this, we have the flexibility to decide what to do with these things.

I think ground rules should be set for the truly ambiguous stuff, just so we know what to do as a collective server. But even the things we decide on should allow for wiggle room.
Zmaj: 32, Chiss agent, lover of intrigue wine
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Varinas: 40, Human Darth, archivist, former "diplomat"

Seem: 38, Rattataki Jedi Master, resident grump
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Offline Niarra

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #17 on: 08/27/17, 04:59:08 PM »
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There is an NPC Emperor - the Empire is not rudderless and of course we can't have one player pick that up :).

I feel that has the potential to get pretty tricky though, particularly when it comes to an authoritarian government like the Empire, because more traditional Imperial characters (military ones, or Sith who are playing as part of the power structure) ICly would know who their emperor/empress is (even at the most basic level of knowing which gender you're talking about), and that could be hugely important in terms of strategies and power games within the Empire itself. Sith are military and political leaders in the Empire, not just (or only) independent warlords, and that usually hinges a lot on pecking order and who stands above you.

I'd be super curious to know what guilds like IWSC or other very formalized Imperial guilds are taking as their guild canon on this front. I would assume they're choosing one way or another and not existing in a gray area, but obviously I can't speak for them and would be curious to learn more.

« Last Edit: 08/27/17, 05:07:01 PM by Niarra »
Niarra Reymark, Jedi Master and Diplomat // Derrad Reymark, Starfighter Ace and Softie // Jheva, Padawan and Pattern Reader // Yatei, Jedi Knight // Zelek Arr, Corn Grower
Sivala, Sith Academy Overseer // Rannayel, Sith Lord and Museum Curator
Erran Veshkgalaar, Mandalorian Accountant // Caustrin Neyvor, Dangerous Puppeteer // Ariza Fey, Psycho and Pyro // Kettur Vaen, Semi-Spook

Offline Karmic

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #18 on: 08/27/17, 07:04:50 PM »
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Outside of IWSC there ARE NO formal Imperial guilds active in this community.  At all.

The rest of us are in individual guilds at this point, or in non-RP guilds.

A "guild leader" meeting might as well just be a general community meeting because we have so many whose guild leaders aren't active (at least sith side) in RP at all and/or guilds that are actually defunct (Like Moirae) and only have one or two active players in this community.  *Not saying we shouldn't have such a meeting but just saying making it guild leader only may not make sense.*

We've never had any outside structure (imperial side) to compete about - other than between Imperial players who are Rpers.  The entire Empire storyline up until Zakul - the Emperor (as a person) was vague to dead - depending on the character. Only in Zakul do we learn for sure we actually have an Emperor but actually also learn he's been gone for the last few hundred years anyway! XD

Any power struggle and games within the Empire would only ever be able to be played out not on a galactic scale - but between individual IMperial players and guilds.  Whether that was over our own self-determined hierarchy of power or because someone actually offended someone else.

But the problem with *that* playstyle is its just making everyone antagonistic towards everyone else - and this community has tended towards cooperative Imperial/Sith play rather than it be plot after plot of kidnappings and killings we have to declare kagath over (which tended to be the only Sith RP available outside of our community in my experience...) and then somehow explain why kagath isn't ending in someone's death.  It always made more sense (possibly because we've always been a small community) for us to not be Sith v Sith infighting.

But what I explain above means - if you ignore Iokath -  nothing's changed at all as far as Imperial play has concerned; other than we have very few Sith Rpers actually Rping anymore - at least outside of guild plots I guess I know nothing about.

I can only go by who shows up at public events :).
« Last Edit: 08/27/17, 07:12:14 PM by Karmic »

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Offline Orell

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #19 on: 08/27/17, 10:41:13 PM »
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One thing that might help is there being a reason for things to be stagnant. Between only god knows how many wars, skirmishes, slaughters, attacks, defenses and such, at this point? The odds are pretty good that no one has the resources needed to wage conventional warfare. It'd be like trying to invade England without having any ships: No matter how big of an army you have, doesn't do you any good if they can't get there.

And the nature of warfare is that Defense is cheaper and easier than Attack. Right now the Republic and Empire are two exhausted boxers, barely able to keep their hands up in the 20th round, waiting for the other one to dive in and bludgeon them. Even the Alliance has got to be feeling it, the Eternal Fleet might be amazingly powerful but it's taken a fuckton of blows since the rebellion started, and no way of making new ships.

That's what makes Iokath so important: If you can claim a superweapon, a weapon that can bypass conventional warfare and force a surrender, then you don't need the expensive conventional invasion...

And, well, whatever's going on on Iokath? The Empress and Supreme Commander, whichever one is still alive, is probably focused on that and that alone, because it's the main key to galactic power right now. Subordinates and underlines are handling engagements and civilian matters elsewhere, because the Empress only has so many hours in the day and all...
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Joshmaul

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #20 on: 08/28/17, 06:30:01 AM »
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Talking about this last night, and basically kind of expressing my frustration, and Noth asked to post my opinion. So here we are...

While some might point the finger - particularly now - at World of Warcraft's current storyline for basically being the same thing as what we have in SWTOR at the moment (same story regardless of faction, and for the most part regardless of class), Blizzard has at least made a token effort to maintain a bit of class and faction identity even as the world unites under one banner against a greater threat, and tries to keep the storyline relatively coherent. BioWare, frankly, has not. The Alliance has superceded the character's faction and class, ahd the choices we make clash with one another, as we see here. The last inkling of what the "canon" choices would be was probably Makeb, which was the last "big thing" that actually kept to the idea of Republic and Empire actually having separate stories.

This whole business annoys me so much that I basically say that both Acina and Malcom are dead, because whichever choice is made, the Alliance is always on top. Even with all the clashing choices - some stayed nice, some went mean, some let Arcann and Senya live, some said "screw that, they die", some chose Malcom, some chose Acina...in the end, does it matter? Whoever is in charge of the Republic and the Empire will now always take a back seat to "the Commander". And we can't even really have it where our characters return to their original factions to lead a revolt, because as far as the game's story is concerned, we'd be revolting against ourselves!
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Offline Karmic

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #21 on: 08/28/17, 01:56:59 PM »
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To Note: Only reason I referenced "WoW" was in referral to the MMO genre as a whole and not anything specific better (or worse or different) they've done than Bioware or anyone else.

Just the idea that no one ever effects the greater world/galaxy/state of XYZ playfield unless you're operating in your own created universe.

Any MMO storyline - you're just "one of a bazillion" and nothing you do will ever really effect (individually) the storyline until the devs post the next chapter and tell you what happened.  None of us in SWTOR has ever had our actions effect the rest of the game's universe.  So not being able to "effect" things now isn't any different than before - or any different than anywhere else in the MMO genre.

And because everyone's character Hasn't joined the Alliance (only Icily), yes, we are having these issues.  Because Bioware wants (at least for now) the story to be "everyone in the Alliance now as we move forward."

Who knows how long that might go for! (that we're all game-lore-wise members of the ALliance)

I mean if we knew right now that for the next two years this was the game's story - that everyone playing is now an Alliance member; well we'd either have to all bow and play our characters to the game's story. 

Or quit. 

Or just create a whole sub-reality where we might as well just quit playing the game and engage in forum RP - for all the good it would do us to try and get others on the server joining the community to do the same (commit to our alternate universe) which is a losing battle.

We have Iokath and we know, loosely, we're hunting for a super weapon and this is faction specific.  We could use this to do events around and bring it out more in the public discussion; or not.  That's what we have right now and that's all the two factions are focused on - that and rebuilding I'm sure (as Orell pointed out).

I"m here to play in the universe you guys give me! :)

And I swear I will eventually get around to fixing my sig...  :umm:

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Offline Avuras

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #22 on: 10/02/17, 04:45:24 PM »
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So according to the SWTOR roadmap released today, Begeren Colony is soon going to be merged with Harbinger and Bastion to form a new server, "The Hot Prospect". This naturally means we are going to be encountering RP communities and continuities already existing on the other two servers.

I foresee us needing to plan ahead in preparation for this.

Now more than ever, we are going to need to get a "Begeren Colony" continuity sorted out and agreed upon, which we can reference as we go forward, whatever it ultimately turns out to be. We've got until November 8th to accomplish this, so we had better get started now while we still have a decent chunk of time.
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Online SquigglyV

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #23 on: 10/02/17, 05:08:06 PM »
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I honestly don't think it'll be necessary, I have serious doubts that there are a significant number of roleplayers on Harbinger or Bastion. Certainly not enough for them to have a unified community with consistent ideas on the current state of the galaxy, even Ebon Hawk doesn't have that as far as I know and they have more people than us.

edit: still not a bad idea at all, I just don't think it's urgent.
« Last Edit: 10/02/17, 05:31:26 PM by SquigglyV »

Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #24 on: 10/02/17, 05:09:28 PM »
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So according to the SWTOR roadmap released today, Begeren Colony is soon going to be merged with Harbinger and Bastion to form a new server, "The Hot Prospect". This naturally means we are going to be encountering RP communities and continuities already existing on the other two servers.

I foresee us needing to plan ahead in preparation for this.

Now more than ever, we are going to need to get a "Begeren Colony" continuity sorted out and agreed upon, which we can reference as we go forward, whatever it ultimately turns out to be. We've got until November 8th to accomplish this, so we had better get started now while we still have a decent chunk of time.

I didn't realize that the Bastion was an RP server!

I (obviously) agree that some kind of server continuity is a good thing to make. But I would caution us to not be... overly ambitious with it? Two different server communities are going to have two different RP canons, in addition to interpretation of game canon, and I don't expect that we will be able to (or that we should!) convince guilds with long histories to change their histories to match our RP community's canon.

OTOH, we as BC definitely do need something definitive about the state of game events, such as the commanders and leaders. Already listed the reasons, so I won't repeat them, but I do expect that once we start crossing over between other RP communities we may find that our fellows on the other servers have already established their own community canon... or at least guild canons.

I guess what I am saying is "Yes, agree!" while also cautioning to be generous when accounting for the established canon of other RP communities with as much history as ours. Establishing a joint understanding of the game's characters and storyline that shows up in the expansions is a great roadmap to follow that will help with RP a lot. But we also cannot expect everyone to agree to it, especially with the server merge.

We should also wait and see what the Bastion folks do. It could be they will want to stay insular. Or it could be some will come over here and say hi. They shouldn't be left out of the discussion if they want to be a part of it.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #25 on: 10/02/17, 05:26:24 PM »
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So according to the SWTOR roadmap released today, Begeren Colony is soon going to be merged with Harbinger and Bastion to form a new server, "The Hot Prospect". This naturally means we are going to be encountering RP communities and continuities already existing on the other two servers.

I foresee us needing to plan ahead in preparation for this.

Now more than ever, we are going to need to get a "Begeren Colony" continuity sorted out and agreed upon, which we can reference as we go forward, whatever it ultimately turns out to be. We've got until November 8th to accomplish this, so we had better get started now while we still have a decent chunk of time.

I didn't realize that the Bastion was an RP server!

I (obviously) agree that some kind of server continuity is a good thing to make. But I would caution us to not be... overly ambitious with it? Two different server communities are going to have two different RP canons, in addition to interpretation of game canon, and I don't expect that we will be able to (or that we should!) convince guilds with long histories to change their histories to match our RP community's canon.

OTOH, we as BC definitely do need something definitive about the state of game events, such as the commanders and leaders. Already listed the reasons, so I won't repeat them, but I do expect that once we start crossing over between other RP communities we may find that our fellows on the other servers have already established their own community canon... or at least guild canons.

I guess what I am saying is "Yes, agree!" while also cautioning to be generous when accounting for the established canon of other RP communities with as much history as ours. Establishing a joint understanding of the game's characters and storyline that shows up in the expansions is a great roadmap to follow that will help with RP a lot. But we also cannot expect everyone to agree to it, especially with the server merge.

We should also wait and see what the Bastion folks do. It could be they will want to stay insular. Or it could be some will come over here and say hi. They shouldn't be left out of the discussion if they want to be a part of it.


I should state that the last time another community tried to integrate or coop with this community it was met with open arms with some and vitriol and disdain from many others. I advise coming up with more ways to make this community more welcoming to outsiders. There will be opinions that greatly divide from yours. This community needs to be hospitable for new ideas from other groups. There will no doubt ably be other rp groups from the other servers and this community could benefit from the ideas they may bring.
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #26 on: 10/02/17, 05:42:05 PM »
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I should state that the last time another community tried to integrate or coop with this community it was met with open arms with some and vitriol and disdain from many others. I advise coming up with more ways to make this community more welcoming to outsiders. There will be opinions that greatly divide from yours. This community needs to be hospitable for new ideas from other groups. There will no doubt ably be other rp groups from the other servers and this community could benefit from the ideas they may bring.

^^^ This is a much better way to articulate what I was trying to... We need to make them part of this discussion when/if we have it, rather than make it for them before they arrive.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #27 on: 10/02/17, 05:51:24 PM »
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I hope my full message sinks in this time. Unity improves communities and echo chambers divide them. Jedi Covenant has a much better coordinated server than we do. They have an rp community combined with their other aspects of the game and have been for as long as we tried to be here. They have Summits and discourse on all parts of the game and their community is one of the closest. We could learn from them a bit don't you think? We can't let those other servers become stronger than what we should be. Sadly Harbinger is on of the most toxic servers in this game so that means we have to work extra hard to be welcoming and grow our community. It also has some of the most skilled players this game has to offer.
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #28 on: 10/02/17, 06:19:52 PM »
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I hope my full message sinks in this time. Unity improves communities and echo chambers divide them. Jedi Covenant has a much better coordinated server than we do. They have an rp community combined with their other aspects of the game and have been for as long as we tried to be here. They have Summits and discourse on all parts of the game and their community is one of the closest. We could learn from them a bit don't you think? We can't let those other servers become stronger than what we should be. Sadly Harbinger is on of the most toxic servers in this game so that means we have to work extra hard to be welcoming and grow our community. It also has some of the most skilled players this game has to offer.

I'm a little confused why you think we're discouraging unity in this thread... :umm: "We should wait for the Bastion folks to get here and then all talk about server continuity" is the opposite of that haha. No one is saying we should be hostile towards other RPers coming in, and I'm not certain where you're getting that.

I think that a unified canon will help with RP, for people to follow and leap off of should they choose. I think it is an extremely useful tool. I'm not sure that it's necessary to force all guilds to participate in summits and obey the canon we all decide on in their personal RP. That's the opposite of welcoming. What I'm suggesting is something that we can use as a tool for creating and organizing large cross-guild and cross-server RP. We are a small server, and guild summits take both organization, energy, and willing participants - and the Bastion people aren't even here yet.

We are not Jedi Covenant nor are we Harbringer. Being merged doesn't erase that history of RP, here or on Bastion. When the Bastion people start coming here and chatting with us, and we all start comparing notes, then would be the time to make decisions on whether or not we are being unwelcoming.

Quote
We can't let those other servers become stronger than what we should be.

It's not a competition. We're all here to enjoy ourselves, tell stories, and have fun in the shared universe.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #29 on: 10/02/17, 06:38:36 PM »
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Sorry I should be more clear. I referencing an event few years ago. So we can learn from those mistakes as another community may be joining us or at least coexisting with us. I realize it is not a competition I just feel that there are ways to learn from other servers.
« Last Edit: 10/02/17, 06:44:38 PM by Dezzrevas »
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)