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Author Topic: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...  (Read 3784 times)

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Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #30 on: 10/02/17, 06:41:52 PM »
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Sorry I should be more clear. I referencing an event few years ago. So we can learn from those mistakes as another community may be joining us or at least coexisting with us.

Ahh, I understand! In that case, maybe a thread specifically about the merge? This thread is for discussing which branching story events to use as canon in our RP given that BW hasn't given us an official canon path for the KOTFE/KOTET expansions yet.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Avuras

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #31 on: 10/02/17, 06:50:39 PM »
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Sorry I should be more clear. I referencing an event few years ago. So we can learn from those mistakes as another community may be joining us or at least coexisting with us.

Ahh, I understand! In that case, maybe a thread specifically about the merge? This thread is for discussing which branching story events to use as canon in our RP given that BW hasn't given us an official canon path for the KOTFE/KOTET expansions yet.

That was why I was initially going to start a new thread earlier today. Having at least a basic plan going forward community-wise (which also includes deciding how we want to approach the topic of RP continuity) and getting everyone on the same page will serve us well, once the server merge occurs.

It would probably be a good idea to reference this thread and discussion if we start a new thread, of course.
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Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #32 on: 10/02/17, 06:53:44 PM »
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Sorry I should be more clear. I referencing an event few years ago. So we can learn from those mistakes as another community may be joining us or at least coexisting with us.

Ahh, I understand! In that case, maybe a thread specifically about the merge? This thread is for discussing which branching story events to use as canon in our RP given that BW hasn't given us an official canon path for the KOTFE/KOTET expansions yet.

That was why I was initially going to start a new thread earlier today. Having at least a basic plan going forward community-wise (which also includes deciding how we want to approach the topic of RP continuity) and getting everyone on the same page will serve us well, once the server merge occurs.

It would probably be a good idea to reference this thread and discussion if we start a new thread, of course.

I would prefer to keep our discussions of continuity and the mechanics of server merging separate, because I think they are, for now, separate issues. One is about the established RP community we have here, what we want out of RP, and hte history of established RP we have. It's about what we want to do IC. The other is about social stuff and mechanics and includes more than just RP communities. Those topics are going to lead in different directions and deserve their own discussions, so that they can be talked about in-depth and in a focused manner.

If you want to make a new thread to talk about the stuff Dezzrevas was talking about, go ahead! I do think these are separate issues and separate discussions for the moment.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Karmic

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #33 on: 10/02/17, 07:06:32 PM »
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So according to the SWTOR roadmap released today, Begeren Colony is soon going to be merged with Harbinger and Bastion to form a new server, "The Hot Prospect". This naturally means we are going to be encountering RP communities and continuities already existing on the other two servers.

I foresee us needing to plan ahead in preparation for this.

Now more than ever, we are going to need to get a "Begeren Colony" continuity sorted out and agreed upon, which we can reference as we go forward, whatever it ultimately turns out to be. We've got until November 8th to accomplish this, so we had better get started now while we still have a decent chunk of time.

To me its the opposite.

We need to wait until after the merge and see what the landscape looks like and what - IF ANY continuity then needs to be agreed upon.

What you said up there is "We need our own to reference whatever it ultimately turns out to to..."  Um...what's the point of figuring something out if we're ultimately changing it to something else?

On top of the fact that not all of us are in agreement we "need" some type of over-master continuity list.

History Posts:  Her Backstory , Darth-Hood

Offline Karmic

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #34 on: 10/02/17, 07:11:25 PM »
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I should state that the last time another community tried to integrate or coop with this community it was met with open arms with some and vitriol and disdain from many others. I advise coming up with more ways to make this community more welcoming to outsiders. There will be opinions that greatly divide from yours. This community needs to be hospitable for new ideas from other groups. There will no doubt ably be other rp groups from the other servers and this community could benefit from the ideas they may bring.

And it should be noted that you were trying to have non-Rpers "merge" into this community forum.  Vitriol and disdain was exchanged on both sides (not just ours). 

But no not everyone is always going to get along.  Trying to mix Non-RP communities into a forum for RPers brings problems. 

We've merged with another RP server before and it went wonderfully.  We got STELL!! As well as others.  It will have its own headaches of course, but they won't be all the same problems that existed when your guys tried to form some sort of "Entire Server Cohesive Community" and stuck RPers into non-RP oriented meetings where neither side cared about what the other side was doing (as in raiders don't care about the RP and Rpers don't care about raid schedules...).

Also - a lot of those players aren't here anymore (at least on our side..=D).  We don't even have the same forum admin.


~~~

But Dezz before you go slinging mud; please be aware that the fall out in voice-chat and in ooc chat that happened involving that entire "debacle" a few years ago when "you" (as in the non RP forum community already here) wanted to merge -on-board with us was mud-slinging from *both sides*.    I only ever saw the rude comments in OOC from people outside our RP community, but I am aware there were people in this community who were rude as well.

Its also very poor form and immature to stay silent for years and then pipe up in a thread about us trying to pull things together and tell us about how bad we were years ago at it (when if you're paying attention you would see that most of the people active then haven't been here for over a year) and how certainly "we" should learn a lesson from that other server.  Yes - I'm sure there are things to learn.

Now get off your high-horse and point the mirror back at yourself and those you brought with you. Finger wagging at us as if the thing falling apart was "all our fault" isn't helping you come across as someone who has done any of that learning yourself.
« Last Edit: 10/02/17, 07:23:01 PM by Karmic »

History Posts:  Her Backstory , Darth-Hood

Offline Niarra

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #35 on: 10/02/17, 07:48:39 PM »
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Puts the Arbiter hat on.

This news of a server merge has a lot of knock-on effects that have everyone understandably riled up and ready with strong first reaction responses. In light of this, this is just a reminder to keep conversations civil, please. Please refrain from personal attacks on other forum users and try to keep discourse on topic.

Takes the Arbiter hat off.
Niarra Reymark, Jedi Master and Diplomat // Derrad Reymark, Starfighter Ace and Softie // Jheva, Padawan and Pattern Reader // Yatei, Jedi Knight // Zelek Arr, Corn Grower
Sivala, Sith Academy Overseer // Rannayel, Sith Lord and Museum Curator
Erran Veshkgalaar, Mandalorian Accountant // Caustrin Neyvor, Dangerous Puppeteer // Ariza Fey, Psycho and Pyro // Kettur Vaen, Semi-Spook

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #36 on: 10/02/17, 09:08:30 PM »
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And it should be noted that you were trying to have non-Rpers "merge" into this community forum.  Vitriol and disdain was exchanged on both sides (not just ours). 

But no not everyone is always going to get along.  Trying to mix Non-RP communities into a forum for RPers brings problems. 

We've merged with another RP server before and it went wonderfully.  We got STELL!! As well as others.  It will have its own headaches of course, but they won't be all the same problems that existed when your guys tried to form some sort of "Entire Server Cohesive Community" and stuck RPers into non-RP oriented meetings where neither side cared about what the other side was doing (as in raiders don't care about the RP and Rpers don't care about raid schedules...).

We don't even have the same forum admin.


~~~

But Dezz before you go slinging mud; please be aware that the fall out in voice-chat and in ooc chat that happened involving that entire "debacle" a few years ago when "you" (as in the non RP forum community already here) wanted to merge -on-board with us was mud-slinging from *both sides*.    I only ever saw the rude comments in OOC from people outside our RP community, but I am aware there were people in this community who were rude as well.

Its also very poor form and immature to stay silent for years and then pipe up in a thread about us trying to pull things together and tell us about how bad we were years ago at it (when if you're paying attention you would see that most of the people active then haven't been here for over a year) and how certainly "we" should learn a lesson from that other server.  Yes - I'm sure there are things to learn.

Now get off your high-horse and point the mirror back at yourself and those you brought with you. Finger wagging at us as if the thing falling apart was "all our fault" isn't helping you come across as someone who has done any of that learning yourself.





Like the last time there may be players who mostly do non rp things but wish to be part of a rp community and expand their knowledge of rp and how it works. People who like to rp are not all hardcore rpers. It was my understanding that this community was in fact a hub of rp expression welcoming to any level or rper. Sadly the last time integration was attempted it didn't work out for many reasons. Though some were overblown and others unconsidered. Many of those players I tried to bring here left the game or went to servers like Ebon hawk or Harbinger, where they found what they were looking for.

I have come here when I could over the last few years. I have even posted a few times, when I had an opinion or something to contribute on a topic. Though mostly read the awesome stories for ideas for my own star wars D20 games I run IRL. My studies and other real life take over sometimes.

 I am happy to see the myriad of new faces we have here in this community. I hope to see many more new faces as our server evolves.

I am sorry if it sounded like I was blaming only people here I know there was enough blame to go around the time before. Sometimes i get lost in my train of thought and only finish part of it I apologize. My major point in in contention however with some of the "them vs us" mentality already shown in this forum thread. We as a community need to recognize there are more that just our ideas. We need to be welcoming when new players come here to connect and share their ideas with us. I am a member of this community, though to some I am an outsider still and I want this community to flourish and grow.

I feel that it might be a good idea for the rp stories to be figured out before the merger and if you have to configure things to add more to the overall story arcs going already do that then. At least with having a road map of where you are going and how the different stories connect, you can then say oh well to incorporate this other story we can change this aspect of the story just a bit and this other aspect now works.


p.s. I suck at using the quote thing and can't differentiate from my statements and Karmics quote :(
« Last Edit: 10/02/17, 09:34:52 PM by Dezzrevas »
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Avuras

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #37 on: 10/02/17, 09:30:17 PM »
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To be frank, my entire reasoning for getting topics like this one sorted out in advance is to "plan for what we don't know". Without a clear idea of what kind of RP scene we will ultimately encounter once the server merge occurs, having at least a basic idea worked out for things like RP continuity will make it easy to change up and adjust plans dynamically, compared to starting from a blank slate.

However, something like this also needs to be done right if its actually going to be beneficial: if overdone, it can instead wind up becoming counter-productive and a hindrance to other people wanting to RP with us or join this community.

Personally, I see the best sort of balance between maintaining pre-existing RP and being accessible to other RP'ers we encounter is a "skeleton framework" -- something along the lines of what Noth touched upon in this thread earlier today. What are the basic details which set the galactic scene for our particular RP community -- the external narrative? And after sorting those out, are there any other more specific details which lay the foundation for our current storylines? It may be worth having some of us create temporary characters on Harbinger and Bastion early to gather further information on the current state of RP over there.
Avuras (Jedi Knight)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #38 on: 10/02/17, 09:36:33 PM »
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One way of making a skeleton framework is to form a timeline guide to events that have gone on here.
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #39 on: 10/02/17, 09:49:15 PM »
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I can tell you right now that bastion has an ok rp community thats what is keeping it alive right now. Bastion was a pvp rp server after all. Harbinger the rp community is pockets some cohesive others more scattered. But their rpers are mixed rpers. What I mean by that is they rp but focus in game content sometimes with stories of their own. Examples we are republic so lets go sack that imperial star port on Alderaan. To more cohesive story lines and character progression within a guild structure.
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #40 on: 10/02/17, 10:25:44 PM »
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My friends, this thread is for discussing which KOTFE/KOTET branches we should, as this forum's RP community, accept as part of our canon. It's not about the server merge. If people from The Bastion come to the forum and want to join in the discussion about which branches to make canon, that would be awesome, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic.

Quote
Personally, I see the best sort of balance between maintaining pre-existing RP and being accessible to other RP'ers we encounter is a "skeleton framework" -- something along the lines of what Noth touched upon in this thread earlier today. What are the basic details which set the galactic scene for our particular RP community -- the external narrative? And after sorting those out, are there any other more specific details which lay the foundation for our current storylines?

Yes. This is the topic of this thread. Discussing what kind of skeleton our little RP community would like to use for our events that we have running, and to lay the groundwork for future events. "Is Acina alive or dead" kinds of questions. Make a separate thread to discuss the server merge, but I'm going to try to bring the thread back around to its topic now.

---------

Back to RP solutions:

I really liked the idea earlier about keeping all the faction leaders alive to best account for peoples' RP stories. I think most people are going to assume, on some level or another, that the characters are alive, so as to not conflict with other peoples' stories. This seems like the best solution to me. It establishes a state of the galaxy which, technically, accounts for the 'best' ending in each faction type. It's the most neutral while still granting a concrete vision of the state of the galaxy (in the absence of a BW update to the effect of 'this path is canon').

Is this something that we, as a community here, can get behind? It's something I see people doing anyway when RPing and discussing current events.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Dezzrevas

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #41 on: 10/02/17, 10:50:47 PM »
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Neutral timeline seems the most sensible to me. If we have to go back and change things to be more open then we go back and integrate other narratives. 
~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Order)
~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)
21st Sage in ranked PVP Grouped(season 6)

Offline Avuras

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #42 on: 10/02/17, 11:14:43 PM »
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When I look at the current "state of the galaxy" (and if Iokath is of any indication), it seems like tension is beginning to smolder between the Republic and Empire, similar to the Cold War earlier in SWTOR's timeline. I suspect the best way to maintain that tension is to keep the relative strength of both factions as equal as possible.

I don't see Malcolm having as much of an impact within ongoing galactic affairs as Acina, but he could provide a significant plot hook for RP storylines and events of a military nature, and so having influence of a more "hands-on" nature.

My impression of Acina is that her presence is a significant stabilizing factor for the Empire, making it a more legitimate rival of the Republic. Not as directly involved in RP as Malcolm, but still more widely felt in the form of a clear leader within the Sith power structure (the influence of which then extends to other sections of Imperial society).

Each has their benefits, and having both alive could prove useful in not immediately polarizing the Alliance towards either galactic faction -- though, if I had to choose independently of that, I see Acina being alive as potentially more beneficial to maintaining the RP setting at large (thus, Solution #1, out of the potential options listed by Noth at the beginning of this thread). But if both Malcolm and Acina are alive, we then need to consider the potential butterfly effect it has on the rest of the galaxy. For instance: does the Alliance still side with either the Republic or Empire, or does it remain an independent power? One thing to keep in mind is that this starts leaning toward Solution #4.

If all else fails, we also have the option of not directly referencing either individual in our future RP. This would be using Solution #3.

In conclusion, I see a combination of Solution #1 & #3 as being the ideal scenario. We reference official "canon when possible (and make a definite decision in situations like Iokath when there is no canonical choice known) to give us the base foundation for the external narrative of the galaxy, within which all our RP takes place. From there, we then define more specific details not explicitly stated by canon (and naturally, not as far-reaching but more personal in RP influence) by referencing the events of our previously completed (and occasionally, ongoing) storylines. Once done, we have our "skeleton framework", and can then post it in a highly visible place on the website for easy reference. Any RP then exists within the ongoing framework.

(on a side note, I've seen something along the lines of Solution #1 enacted on a roleplaying site dedicated to Mass Effect to allow for cohesive RP occurring after the trilogy, with everything else handled via a variation of Solution #3. It has worked very well so far, from my occasional observations of their handiwork)
« Last Edit: 10/02/17, 11:17:26 PM by Avuras »
Avuras (Jedi Knight)

Offline Noth

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #43 on: 10/03/17, 12:07:07 AM »
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Each has their benefits, and having both alive could prove useful in not immediately polarizing the Alliance towards either galactic faction -- though, if I had to choose independently of that, I see Acina being alive as potentially more beneficial to maintaining the RP setting at large (thus, Solution #1, out of the potential options listed by Noth at the beginning of this thread). But if both Malcolm and Acina are alive, we then need to consider the potential butterfly effect it has on the rest of the galaxy. For instance: does the Alliance still side with either the Republic or Empire, or does it remain an independent power? One thing to keep in mind is that this starts leaning toward Solution #4.

This is actually why I've suggested this option. Becuase that's the galaxy I already see people RPing in: One where everyone's alive, and the Alliance is an actual, genuine third faction, and they are all warring over Iokath. It's the solution people seem to have come to most naturally when trying to overcome the awkwardness of not being able to actually say definitively which side they chose.

I am not sure I explained Solution #3 well, because it's not something that you can really combo with others. Solution #3 would mean we are creating adventures which do not talk about or touch the current state of the galaxy at all. That is what sets it apart from the other solutions. Each solution stands on its own as a different way to discuss the problem.

If we take things as people are currently RPing them, it's Solution #1 in which everyone is alive. I see Imp players talk about Acina and her rule. I see Pubs talk about Saresh as if she's held in indefinite custody. I see Alliance players talk about the Alliance as a third faction... as do most talk about Iokath from all factions. It just seems like this is the pattern we have already fallen into. A solution where people are running one shot adventures, but we have a server canon to draw on, is still just Solution #1.

Solution #3 also involves players actually making stories. So if people decide that's what they want to go with, there need to be more GMs stepping up to create content which does not touch on the state of the galaxy and stands alone in time and space.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Avuras

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Re: What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...
« Reply #44 on: 10/03/17, 12:19:05 AM »
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This is actually why I've suggested this option. Becuase that's the galaxy I already see people RPing in: One where everyone's alive, and the Alliance is an actual, genuine third faction, and they are all warring over Iokath. It's the solution people seem to have come to most naturally when trying to overcome the awkwardness of not being able to actually say definitively which side they chose.

I am not sure I explained Solution #3 well, because it's not something that you can really combo with others. Solution #3 would mean we are creating adventures which do not talk about or touch the current state of the galaxy at all. That is what sets it apart from the other solutions. Each solution stands on its own as a different way to discuss the problem.

If we take things as people are currently RPing them, it's Solution #1 in which everyone is alive. I see Imp players talk about Acina and her rule. I see Pubs talk about Saresh as if she's held in indefinite custody. I see Alliance players talk about the Alliance as a third faction... as do most talk about Iokath from all factions. It just seems like this is the pattern we have already fallen into. A solution where people are running one shot adventures, but we have a server canon to draw on, is still just Solution #1.

Solution #3 also involves players actually making stories. So if people decide that's what they want to go with, there need to be more GMs stepping up to create content which does not touch on the state of the galaxy and stands alone in time and space.

Then in that case, it seems the ideal solution is clear. This is what I personally see: if we base our canon on the simple premise that the Alliance Commander is an NPC of unspecified origin, Iokath is a three-way conflict between the Republic/Sith Empire/Alliance, Malcolm and Acina are both alive, and be sure to firmly address Schrodinger's Galaxy if another instance occurs in the future, I'm pretty sure we should have a sufficient skeleton framework in place.
Avuras (Jedi Knight)