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Messages - Iaera

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Introductions / Re: OOC Introduction
« on: Today at 02:53:40 PM »

also some further thoughts

Jedi know how things should be. But that's not how things often are, and that gap is some of the most interesting story material for the Jedi that I can think of. Here's hoping we have more fun with it in the future :).

This is an interesting theme to wrangle with... the galaxy is big. In the grand scheme of things, there's really only a handful of Jedi by comparison. Add in the constant war and the natural focus of Jedi on the front lines, and you not only forget that Jedi are peacekeepers too, but the rest of the galaxy kind of forgets as well. They're too few to go around, and gazillions of people who've probably never seen one in person, much less been helped by one.

In that perspective, I think it's easy to see why the entire galaxy practically forgot they existed in the twenty years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, outside of a handful of people like Bail Organa.

Well done! I liked it.  :cheer:

Hostage situations can be pretty interesting for Jedi, in moderation (some thoughts on that, but perhaps for another thread). I like thinking about how differently my characters would handle it. Sib, the fighter pilot, (sort of) handled it by trusting her squadron and holding off on engagement, lying in wait to provide support and pursuit as needed (she's a bit more disciplined than she lets on...!). Iaera would have been The Cop, prepared to simultaneously negotiate and use lethal force.

It was a good dilemma to throw in and added an interesting wrinkle to an action/combat encounter!

Cantina / Re: Gratitude
« on: Today at 12:48:03 AM »
(seriously, I'm half tempted to just post my full notes, because hooooooly crap every time I do an event things go a bit off the rails)


Cantina / Re: Gratitude
« on: Today at 12:27:39 AM »
Thanks to @Orell for running a great Jedi kNight!

Events and Occasions / Re: Jedi Night Weekly Event Thread
« on: 01/18/18, 02:44:27 PM »
Oooh! Sibyl-ko is a former Coruscant underworld slumdog, and has had a few recent conversations about dealing with that history... This event sounds like a great opportunity for folks to see a different side of her!

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/11/18, 07:41:03 PM »
I'm not necessarily opposed to Luke failing -- I get that. I'd be on board with it had it not been in exact opposition with his established character. I don't expect Luke to be perfect, and I think it would have been wonderfully fertile ground to talk about the perpetual cycle of each generation failing the next, and the next generation resolving to do better, only to themselves fail the generation after that. Two steps forward, one step back, the inexorable march of civilisation toward better enlightenment.

For what it's worth, I actually really liked the execution of showing that failure. The different points of view and slow revelation of truths was, I thought, an excellent device to employ, and worthy of sitting alongside many of the storytelling devices Lucas used, such as employing C-3P0 and R2-D2 as the central POV characters in A New Hope. But the writing of Luke (and most of the plot, for that matter) wrankles here.

Anyway, thanks for the reply! Your perspective is always enlightening Bling. But in this case I just can't get on board the TLJ train.

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/11/18, 05:13:17 PM »
  • We have never seen a living person make an ethereal appearance somewhere they're not.
  • All prior such ethereal appearances are distinctly ghostly, blue, and intangible.

These first two points are relatively minor, and "adding" these to the canon aren't necessarily game-breaking. They are inconsistent, though. I suppose one could explain that fake-Luke isn't ghostly because he isn't dead yet, or something, and the living aspect of it could be described as pushing the envelope on some sort of mass hallucinatory mind trick. A stretch, but by themselves I wouldn't complain too much.

  • Prior ethereal stuff has generally only been noticed by those attuned to the Force. There's no indication Han or Wedge or anyone else saw Obi-wan, Yoda, and Anakin at the end of Return of the Jedi.
  • Fake-Luke has a physical presence and imparts (also fake??) physical objects to people.
  • The one saving grace to this, their attempt to impose some Rules on it by having it kill Luke, makes no damn sense!

These points open cans of worms that cannot really be closed again, especially in concert with Yoda's newfound Druid spell list. If Fake Ghost People are a thing now, this has a lot of pretty unfortunate ramifications. Every scene involving a Force user henceforth has this weird shadow cast over it: is this person real? The OT kept ghosts in check, they were nothing more than voices from beyond the grave who could only be seen or heard by those in the know. Now there's no real distinction between alive and dead, you can just show up wherever and cast lightning bolts and give people fake (conjured?) objects.

It's power creep, it's inconsistent power creep, and it breaks a coherency to the universe in much the same way as the hyperspace-ramming does.

And, again, it violates a literary Occam's Razor (Chekov's Bayonet?). It's like some sort of absurdist, Hitchhiker's Guide kind of fiction: Given a logical solution and progression of events that is teased earlier in the story (Lift X-wing, fly to defense of Crait, face Kylo), the story deliberately eschews that and invents an absurd, out-of-left-field progression of events instead that no one could have predicted not because it's clever, but because the writers inserted something that was never previously possible. Like a bad M. Night Shyamalan movie inserting a gratuitous "twist" for twist's sake. Psych!

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/10/18, 03:54:57 PM »
The Force works in everything. It's not being able to throw crap with your mind and do flips and coerce people, it's the power of fate, and the ability of heroes to change it.

Well said! It's kind of off-topic, but this has always been a pet peeve of mine, and you said it really well here, so I just wanted to throw in some mad props! :lightside:

SOMEBODY PULL THAT GOD DAMN X-WING OUT OF THE WATER AND FLY OFF TO BE A HERO FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THAT IS STAR WARS. It legitimately upsets me that they would take that, take time to show it to us, to draw all these comparisons, to Dagoba to Yoda to all of that, put it in the forefront of our minds, that ultimate, iconic, epitomizing scene of faith and hope and triumph and things not being as they seem and you know all the stuff this movie was nominally about just to do absolutely frak all with it. Nothing. Nada. Never comes up again. Just wanted to be cheeky and put Checkhov's gun on the wall only to leave it there because we're so very clever and that's what this is all about, subvert everything forever.

Also well said. The Chekov's Gun aspect of it bothers me, and I think you're correct to point out the edgy subversion thereof, which seems trollishly intentional.

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/10/18, 02:28:58 PM »
Because he fucked up.

It's a defining aspect of Last Jedi Luke: He saw what Kylo was capable of, where he path laid, and in a moment of weakness drew his weapon... and then the moment passed, a moment too late. It's why he pulled a Bindo (the other kind) and ran off to a hidden island to pout: He had failed his nephew, he felt that he had driven the boy to the Dark Side and it had led to the death of every one of his students that didn't join Kylo.

All from a moment's weakness. That sorta thing would mess anyone up.

He already had that moment of weakness when Vader tripped his Enrage Timer at Endor. He overcame it, remembered why he was there, and faced the Emperor (all of which was functionally subordinate to giving Vader his moment, but that's another topic). These movies are ceaseless in their efforts to invalidate everything that happened in Return of the Jedi, and Luke's character is one of those things.

If they wanted to play Luke as some sort of tragic figure who keeps fucking up and in so doing perpetuates the failure of the Jedi and the eternal resurgence of the Sith (necessitating Rey, Finn, et al take his place and once more try to do better), that might have been interesting, but that's not at all what they did. He 'fucked up' because writer's fiat. It makes no sense. It's inconsistent with the man who went on a suicide mission to the Death Star on the thin hope that there was still good in his father... we're expected to believe that he takes the opposite approach to his own nephew now? A sliver of good is worth saving, but a sliver of evil (in a teenager?!) merits a pre-crime death sentence (however briefly entertained)?! What?! It's absurd. It's nonsense. And I reject it vehemently.

Also, I wouldn't have thought it would be out of character for Luke to show up and rearrange Kylo's body parts in alphabetical order, but Karmic does bring up a good point: Even with all the crazy shit that the Jedi and Sith have done throughout the years, going up against that entire army alone would be beyond even Starkiller. The only way he stalls for more than a minute is by making himself impossible to kill by not even really being there.

That's where the X-wing comes into play. Script-wise, the Millennium Falcon has already drawn off all the TIEs (not that Luke couldn't handle a few anyway...), leaving the relatively defenseless gorilla-bots sitting there. There's a zillion ways to write a scene like that -- have him do a lot of damage, then his X-wing gets clipped and crash-lands, he hops out, Kylo instructs his men to stand back while they duel; Luke does damage, Kylo takes control of a walker himself and shoots down his uncle, giving Luke a poetic death scene in the cockpit of the X-wing he was figuratively born in; etc etc.

This "Luke MUST astral project himself across the galaxy to stall Kylo, it's the only thing that makes sense!" thing is the most bizarre manifestation of a violation of some literary version of Occam's Razor. There's a million other ways the final Crait Luke-Kylo climax can be done, yet they settle on the most convoluted, rules-breaking nonsensically baffling way to do it and people gobble it up.

Holocrons and Info Nodes / Re: Comments on Stories
« on: 01/10/18, 12:14:15 PM »
Others have covered the point pretty well, but just to add!

Any good authoritarian regime worth its salt would still retain the concept of a 'war crime'... the charges just aren't applied in an ethical manner. All the 'best' tyrannies in human history anchored much of their power in notions of public morality and goodness: The first emperors of Rome weren't 'emperors' at all; Romans hated kings, so the emperors were just First Citizens who loved the Republic so much that they needed all the effective power of an emperor. Kim Jong Un is a divinely perfect being from whom all goodness and virtue flow, Hitler was just exemplifying the virtuousness of German character, the Ayatollah of Iran keeps that pesky Iranian democratic fever from flirting with the 'evil West,' and so on.

Evil people and evil empires love loudly and publicly signalling how 'virtuous' they are.

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/10/18, 11:59:56 AM »
It's like everyone forgot a valuable lesson Yoda teaches in Empire Strikes Back.

"A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, Never for attack."

This is why for most of his duel with Vader was him either defending himself or flat out not actually fighting. This is why he tosses away his lightsaber after realizing what he was doing after cutting off Vader's hand. And this is exactly why Luke didn't actually show up to fight at the Battle of Crait.

Then why would he attack Kylo in his sleep? Citing Jedi philosophy and Luke's pacifism and compassion is the worst argument to use in defense of Luke's portrayal in this movie... because it's the best argument for how poor his portrayal was!

Seriously, I had to do a double-take reading that. It's one of the biggest problems I have with this movie; there's no sign of ESB/RotJ Luke to be found.

And coming to Crait is defense -- defense of his friends, of the Resistance. He didn't have any problems helping the Rebels kill scout troopers on Endor and assisting in racking up another few hundred thousand dead Death Star crew, why would he have a problem fighting a few First Order goons on Crait? I'm all for messages of compassion and non-violence (I think they're great!) but they need to be sensible, and stopping bad guys from killing your friends and conquering the galaxy seems pretty sensible to me. And they could have done it without breaking The Rules of the universe (which they did flagrantly and carelessly throughout this movie), while giving some nice callbacks to a character who once upon a time flew X-wings and used a lightsaber.

I'm going to stop myself before this turns into a full-fledged rant, but after a second viewing I'm increasingly frustrated with how utterly sophomoric this movie and its Matrix-level pseudo-philosophy is. It's incoherent, inconsistent, opens more cans of worms than a professional bass fishing competition, and feels at its core like it was written specifically to pander to an edgy, hipster-ish subversion of its own brand.

Before Force Awakens came out, I promised myself that whatever I saw, I wouldn't become the next generation of Prequel Hater. Some would probably say I've failed, but if you like these movies, more power to you. I can see why people like them. But it has nothing to do with the Star Wars I love, and I've seen very few persuasive arguments to the contrary (Bling did an admirable job earlier in this thread, but ultimately I have to disagree on most points). As far as I'm concerned, these two movies get the Highlander 2 treatment from me.

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/09/18, 07:30:34 AM »
I feel like doing what they did was disrespectful to his character.

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/08/18, 10:04:11 PM »
i mean

he could've done that by lifting his x-wing out of the water and blowin' up some first order goons and then flippin' out of his cockpit with the zwang zwoo bzzzzh (re-ignitin' indeed) and bein' all "your unspecified tyranny is at an end kylo!!!"

just sayin'

Outside Realm / Re: the last jedi [spoiler city]
« on: 01/07/18, 05:55:12 PM »
I'm of mixed thoughts on that fight scene. Part of me likes it, part of me doesn't like it.

I think Semah's explanation resolves it for me. It's fanfic, but at least it's interesting fanfic. Better than Kylo getting Luke pregnant, anyway.

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