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Author Topic: How do you RP fights?  (Read 1330 times)

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Offline Gymbiezhae

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How do you RP fights?
« on: 01/16/16, 04:54:05 PM »
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Now this question is going to seem alittle odd, as most people use rolls. However, to me, the system of rolling relies on random luck rather than IC training and OOC ability to recognize their own characters limits. On top of this, rolls allow for a player to create a situation in which another players character has no possible way to survive an event, even if this player has an expressed interest in keeping his character alive. For example, There was a situation (which at no fault of my own i might add) a player decided it would be best to stab mine through the neck, with no warning OOC or IC. His rationalization, of course, was that I had lost 5 dice rolls (which was true) and that constituted death. I was never informed of this, nor was I asked if he could kill my character.

So, rather than this nonsense involving something completly random (Or as random as the game allows), I suggest that a player should understand both their characters training (avoiding all Gmodding, naturally) and what their characters limits are. Ex.) An acolyte insaults a Darth, the Acolyte being far less powerful and having next to no training has next to no chance of beating the darth. So, assuming the Acolyte did not give permission to the Darth to kill him, the Darth naturally wins the fight leaving the Acolyte injured (not critically) and with a 'lesson in manners'.

Let me know what you think of this, and how you RP fights. Thank you for taking the time to read this :)

Offline blingdenston

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #1 on: 01/16/16, 05:43:43 PM »
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You've highlighted TWO of the biggest problems of using an arbitrary 'win/lose die roll' schema.  First, that it essentially turns storytelling into a randomly determined series of events with, usually, one of two outcomes.  Second...that it's not really a 'system', and doesn't provide either the protections nor the manipulable factors that having a more rigid system in place offers.

That's why, in my opinion, you should take two tacks when adjudicating conflict in roleplay: either freeform it, or have a predetermined system with character stats and a conflict resolution system of some sort.  I like both of these for different situations: I like freeform in groups larger than two or three, and a conflict resolution system with more intimate groups, preferably with a neutral 3rd party as 'Game Master'.

The big problem with your suggestion is that it hews so closely to the perennial Star Wars bugbear of 'temporal power equals success'...OF COURSE Darth Insanius beats smuggler Captain Rhondo Czolo...he's a Darth!  No smuggler ever beats a Darth!

(Insert videos of Millennium Falcon swooping in at the end of Star Wars, and Vader capturing Solo in ESB, argue at leisure.)

I think, in that particular case, it requires a BIT more effort than just saying 'I win, because Knight beats Corporal and that's just the way it is'.  Rather than a desultory 'system' derived from 'seniority', I suggest the following: when you're entering a conflict, take some time to discuss it OOC with the other participants.  Figure out who's going to 'win' beforehand.  This turns it from less of a contest of who's dice are luckier and who has the more impressive cape to a team effort devoted to telling a cool story. 

If you're not going to get what you want, and the other participants aren't willing to negotiate...pull out.  You have no obligation to not-have-fun in favor of others.  Nobody can force you to kill off your character if you don't want to...and nobody can force your Wise Jedi Master to continuously play Inspector Zenigata for a plucky group of teenaged Imperial Agents.  Don't let them.
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Offline Isarii

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #2 on: 01/16/16, 06:10:12 PM »
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While I love @blingdenston's post and it's spot on, I do think it needs to be pointed out that this thread was largely spurred on by an irregular experience that isn't going to be common in the greater RP community or the people who browse this website. Someone taking control of your character and harming them (let alone killing them) without consulting you first OOC'ly is one of the biggest and most obvious no-no's to be avoided.

With that in mind, you're sort of introducing a solution to an almost non-existent problem. Some people are bad RPers, and it sucks when you encounter them, but all you can really do is just ignore them and move on - they won't read or listen to threads like this anyway. And as the above poster said, blanket "I'm higher ranked than you, so I obviously have to win" type rules definitely wouldn't be the answer regardless.

Online Iaera

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #3 on: 01/16/16, 06:18:09 PM »
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I'm of pretty similar mind to bling - I love freeform resolution in most typical use cases here, because it both does the job and allows for wider creativity and storytelling. Plus, it trusts the RPers involved to be mature and reasonable people. In some cases that might not work, but I think as a general rule of thumb it's okay to trust people to not be raging dickwads most of the time.

Of course, freeform has its limits (dickwads notwithstanding). It can only weather so much abuse before it starts straining at the seams - too many people all trying to post their huge creative posts about their character's spinny flip super-acrobatic slash-stab snipe-shot that blows out the droid's lower left ankle actuator servo with an electro-plasma surge really starts to make certain RP formats suffer. This is where more organised systems start to shine, but of course they have pitfalls of their own.
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Offline Orell

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #4 on: 01/16/16, 07:02:03 PM »
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First off? Bling is so so correct on the mechanics of it.

But I want to bring up a second aspect to it: Losing is winning.

Assuming for the moment that the RP does not involve people being killed (which is usually a safe bet), your character losing isn't exactly as bad as you losing.

Here's a common thing I've seen happen with RP: Two character fights. One of them gives it a good go, but is outmatched and is defeated, injured but not dead or anything. The other wins and is triumphant.

The winner gets a bit of RP after about their victory, but it burns through fast because... well, they won, what else is there to say?

The loser gets a ton of RP. Friends making sure they're alright, a doctor or two comes along to treat the injury, the lover/spouse rushes up scared out of their mind, and maybe for the next week or two they can RP their recovery from the battle and from a notable wound.

My characters have lost RP fights plenty, usually when I've said "Yeah, my char isn't as strong, let them show that they're capable and then they go down". And afterwards, the RP for that character has been wonderful, because there's something interesting to reflect on.

Just a thought. If you play RP as a game that you "win" by beating someone else, then you might not get this fun feel. But if it's about the characters... well, losing an RP fight is an opportunity to get a huge amount of awesome RP out of it.
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Offline Seraphie

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #5 on: 01/16/16, 07:30:42 PM »
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Personally, I like the randomness that rolls add. I prefer going into the rp not know how it's going to end.

Of course, rule with anyone I rp with is that when a character hits 0 hp, they're knocked out. No one dies unless that's arranged ahead of time.

I used to use the base-100 system described on this website, or something reasonably close. Attacker types attempted attack, rolls success of attack, defender types attempted defense, rolls success of defense... was a little slow, but did the trick. The group I was with at the time tried adding tweeks to account for situation and strengths - bonuses like the trait system, or de-buffs of sorts, that below a certain threshold of hp, you needed a higher result to succeed, or similar such things, but it weighed down and slowed down the rp too much rather quickly.

After playing Star Wars Edge of the Empire, with their dice system that Iaera is describing in another thread, I shifted how I use rolls in rp combat between pc's.  Now, I use an opposed rolls system. Attacker types attempted attack and rolls, defender rolls and then types out either successful defense, or damage taken. The highest roll wins and a spread of more than 75 is a crit. I find it runs a little more smoothly than the base-100 system. I've also run some rps where traits were added to this system, and that worked really well. I haven't tried this system with any really large group yet, but hope to at some point.

Also, for combat against NPCs, mobs or bosses, I still use the base 100 system, or just freeform, depending upon the group and the situation.

Offline Karmic

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #6 on: 01/16/16, 08:12:44 PM »
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I suggest the following: when you're entering a conflict, take some time to discuss it OOC with the other participants.  Figure out who's going to 'win' beforehand.  This turns it from less of a contest of who's dice are luckier and who has the more impressive cape to a team effort devoted to telling a cool story. 

If you're not going to get what you want, and the other participants aren't willing to negotiate...pull out.  You have no obligation to not-have-fun in favor of others.  Nobody can force you to kill off your character if you don't want to.

This.. SO much this.

In my 10+ years of online MMO Rping (and RPing fights) its one of the BIGGEST drama-llama creation situations because things can go ooc /whine fest fast IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE DISCUSSION BEFORE HAND!

I don't like just /roll when you're fighting because no it takes into account NOTHING about the strengths or weaknesses of anyone's character. 

If you're a Darth you should be able to force-throw a chair without fail.  Seriously.  But oh you rolled a 20, the chair doesn't move (Or you hit yourself with it... funny but not realistic..).

Or like you said, you fail multiple rolls in a row - so somehow a 10 year old Padawan knocks a Darth out without the Darth getting in a single hit.  /nonsensical

If its an event with multiple people playing (like our chatroom events ..more like tabletop turn based RP) then yes dice rolls are helpful but I've always advocated for the "Roll first then action" sequence because at least then you know if the next move is going to win or fail and can play something accordingly so you're character doesn't look like a blind baffoon flinging poo...

IF its one on one RP fighting here are my rules:

1- I won't engage in the fight period if I don't know the other person all that well.  RP fights (IMO) require trust in the other person to be FUN for BOTH parties; if you don't know anything about that person or how they "fight" (or resolve issues) then getting into blind RP fights is just asking for drama whining all around and bad feelings.  Even if its roll based.

I think in this game, since launch, I"ve seen "blind" RP fights end "happy" for everyone.. count them on one hand.  95% of them end badly/drama/2 hours later of whining...

2-I won't engage in the fight, period, if the person is unwilling to discuss things OOCily before hand.  Rolls or not.  I don't mean a 20 minute back and forth plan of the fight; I mean something as brief and short as, "ok how are you looking for this to pan out?  Is ABC ok with you? is XYZ not ok? (i.e. being knocked out, losing a limb, dying, force-crazy shenanigans, oober-powerful-force-god all the way superhero fight style fun...)

If I already know the person I'm Rping with and we agree on the ending, then the rolling is up to each person.  I know some people roll for themselves regardless because they like the randomness of their own attacks and such and use that to be fair (even if the other person doesnt' roll... people roll on their own desk...).

I hate rolling because RNG always hates me.  For reals, ask anyone who's ever gone on an event with me how detrimental the RNG Curse is for me and my entire team... its usually catching  :halo:

If I already know the person I'm Rping and we've agreed on the ending then I'm also perfectly fine with no rolls.  For hits to be exchanged back and forth for however long it needs to last (hopefully no more than 20-30 minutes...), each person taking some damage at their discretion, and then the fight coming to a fitting and sensical end-move.

That to me makes it not only more enjoyable for the participants; but also for anyone who has to watch.

If you're RP fighting in public and people are watching adn you take an hour - guess what... everyone's bored.  And odds are you just got lost in your own Epixness that noone cares about.  A fight should not take that long, even an RP fight...

No decision should be allowed to be made whole quarter and "forced" upon you WITHOUT Prior agreement.  "Oh no sorry you lost 3 rolls in a row, you should get knocked out."  (WTF? That's random odds...)

As soon as ANYONE Tries to do that to someone in a fight, I'm out.

According to developmental psychology, people start to learn and understand that 'Rules apply the same to everyone and not just exceptions for me" around age 7-9.  Anyone who tries to RP fight and doesn't get that isn't someone I ever want to RP fight with.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Rpers (good or bad...), think its only a good fight if THEY Win, and aren't willing to even look at another possibility - half of them not even willing to take an injury in the first place.

Rare are the *great* Rpers who you can RP fight with, with next to no discussion, and have everyone leave happy.  So don't assume its common, it just isn't.


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Offline Sasmi

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #7 on: 01/16/16, 08:59:32 PM »
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I do agree with a lot above.

But an additional preference of mine...


Online Hawking

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #8 on: 01/17/16, 12:28:09 AM »
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Now you listen here, mate, nothing wrong with long winding sentences describing combat. I need to know exactly to what extent all muscles in a given character's body are stretching at any one time. I also enjoy learning exactly to what degree they are pivoting, precisely how their limbs move in tandem to their torso, where their eyes lay...

"Anaxagoras placed the ball of his left foot upon the ashen soil, pivoting exactly 35 degrees in relation to where he stood previously. He raised the blade using his immense shoulder muscles, but adjusted the weight so that his formidable triceps, biceps and back muscles assisted in hefting the 13.32kg, 60" blade, with a grip made of drakeskin that was crafted to fit his two meaty hands, each bearing four fingers and a thumb..."


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Offline Armeria

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #9 on: 01/17/16, 08:51:13 AM »
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I have a complex stategery when it comes to role playing fights: I like to RP fight with role playing partners I know aren't going to be buttheads! Also I don't mind losing and tend to go into fights thinking my apprentices/Padawns will probably get beaten, so if I win unexpectedly it's a surprise! And also who sort of match my style and are patient with me because fighting isn't my forte.

Offline Toasty McGrath

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Re: How do you RP fights?
« Reply #10 on: 01/17/16, 09:22:46 AM »
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Uh, yeah. You don't get to just kill someone else's character. Dude clearly didn't know how to play nice with others.