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Author Topic: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...  (Read 9820 times)

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Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #15 on: 12/08/16, 01:16:01 PM »
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However, I guess I should ask for a sub to help again. At this rate it's probably the only way I'll get things. The GTN prices exploded while I was gone. Fortunately, that also means that stuff I bought in the past for 5k now sells for 100k.

.....
However, I love the irony of how the game tries to squeeze you for all it's worth then unintentionally promises to essentially give the expansion away because someone won't look closely at their own fine print. :lol:

Yea, decorating my stronghold is the *only* reason I pay for a sub.  Because I need the liquid cash flow to be able to buy the decorations (and flip others to sell so I can buy more!)

Prior to the strongholds/decoration influx I was Rping for free for months!  It was awesome!  :aww:

But since I got the bug and slowly built up my credits over the years - I'd be giving up the real ability to buy whatever I wanted freely by dropping the sub.  Even if I unlocked the credit level restrictions, there is still a cap there ultimately (there is no "Unlock for access to all credits").

But that guildhall thing...hrmm...  I may need to talk to Stell...  :evil:  :grin:

And yes Imazi - the irony of them RNGing the crap out of me and then I get all the new stuff for free.  I've not paid a penny for the Expansion (over the sub fee).

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Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #16 on: 12/08/16, 01:22:03 PM »
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And to go back on topic --

I WANT THE ZAKUL LOUNGE!!

Interesting how the Zak Lounge uses all Selkath couches... :grin:

..and..and the party table.. and those lights... ooh the ALTAR!! (Karmic Sithiness on that with the sith pool of blood...).  I'm sure I"ll want that 'Profane" mural we don't have a picture of... !!THE VOSS CHANDELIER!!  I need like 10 of those!

The Fountain...

Man... I better get to flippin!

As for the 5th anniversary stuff - the Painting Pack will be used.  I imagine those are Bound so we won't get to flip them in six months for millions  :sigh:

The Jawa and the Holostatue will sit in my bank and collect dust with the rest of those things.

And if anyone doesn't' yet have the capital city SH then 5 credits is a really cool thing.  And that may mean the decoration bug bites a few more rich raid players who have nothing more to do with their credits then buy the crap I'm flipping for way over what one should pay...   :evil:  :darkside:

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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #17 on: 12/08/16, 01:38:17 PM »
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And yes Imazi - the irony of them RNGing the crap out of me and then I get all the new stuff for free.  I've not paid a penny for the Expansion (over the sub fee).

No, I mean where it says you can play the expansion with an Advanced Character Token at the bottom of the the KOTET page. it's the fourth bullet point down.

However, I hope the life day vendor sells past stuff including previous cartel market items. I also hope they release the binding restrictions, but I really doubt that. As stands though, I didn't like the changes to the snowball bomb and the life day event items.

I really do like the look of the upcoming decorations though.
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Online SquigglyV

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #18 on: 12/08/16, 01:40:48 PM »
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I usually don't use Zakuul decorations because their tech doesn't match my Imperial aesthetic but I like that fountain a lot.

Also the anniversary collage thing that they're doing seems interesting, I might send a picture from spooky planet #1.

Offline Orell

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #19 on: 12/08/16, 04:42:12 PM »
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So, the livestream happened! Dulfy's summary here: http://dulfy.net/2016/12/08/swtor-december-producers-livestream-coverage-2/

Some quick beats?

- They're going to be making a few changes to CXP on Tuesday, boosting Uprising and FP rewards to be roughly in line with PvP in terms of reward efficiency, and nudging killing Elite enemies up to 2CXP each (up from 1, down from 10 on release). No nerfs.

- They're going to keep monitoring, seeing if there's other problem spots, wager they'll have another minor update before the new year.

- They're looking into bigger changes, but don't expect any major structural changes for a bit (like alt support for GC). Modifying rewards is easy, changing the very way those rewards are handled isn't, takes time to create and test.

One bit from Dulfy I want to address, tho?

Quote
They didnít really say this but if you read between the lines, they want you to play the game in a specific way they intended.

...that's really, really big on the paranoia side of things.

Look, yes, the designers of a game want the game played in a defined manner. That is true of nearly every single game. It's true of Minecraft, it's true of World of Warcraft, it's true of bloody Tetris. If a game's designers don't have a vision about how the player is intended to approach and enjoy it, that game is going to be crap.

Galactic Command is a good system with a great deal of potential, but it was launched very poorly balanced and with a large number of rough spots. Everything I'm seeing about Galactic Command says that Bioware wants players to be able to do whatever they feel like doing and getting rewards, with better rewards for group content and more difficult content, with a constant reward structure in place to consistently encourage them without ever capping out (coughskinnerboxcough).

Done right, it allows the entire game to feed into that reward structure. All those stupid events, all those fun FPs you used to play, going back and revisiting story chapters, all of it.

But they key word is "Done right". Right now, it's not being done right, the RNG is too aggressive, the lack of alt-support punitive... and I'm not too surprised. It's a massive structural overhaul of the basic reward structure that MMO's rely on. There's more kinks in it than I'd like on release... but it's hard not to see the kinks coming.
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #20 on: 12/08/16, 04:59:37 PM »
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That last point is my contention. I could care less about gearing, but it's been clear they herd players into playing a certain way long before now. For instance, going along with their comments about grinding mobs on Tatooine, I used to grind one heroic to make the money I needed to buy decorations. Thaat system wasn't the most fun use of a heroic, but it worked for me because it let me do what was fun.

I hate combat. The only use I have for it is as a means to an end for other content. However, because that didn't their definition of "fun", they stopped people like me from doing it entirely. Now I have to make combat my focus if I want to "play" the game. I have no use for that, and it takes me too long to make money for decos... well it used to. Other choices they made compelled people to start pricing things well above my cap. I have no fun in the game proper now, but this stream clearly told me I'm supposed to have fun playing the game their way.

This is really much bigger than a gearing issue. Metric are nice but they forget that numbers are activities not reasons. People might do something you didn't intend because you didn't allow for them to do what they wanted straight up. I get that I'm not a target demographic here but from the sounds of it, people from a large range of play styles are feeling the squeeze of Dev approved play.

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Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #21 on: 12/08/16, 07:24:46 PM »
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That last point is my contention. I could care less about gearing, but it's been clear they herd players into playing a certain way long before now. For instance, going along with their comments about grinding mobs on Tatooine, I used to grind one heroic to make the money I needed to buy decorations. Thaat system wasn't the most fun use of a heroic, but it worked for me because it let me do what was fun.

I hate combat. The only use I have for it is as a means to an end for other content. However, because that didn't their definition of "fun", they stopped people like me from doing it entirely. Now I have to make combat my focus if I want to "play" the game. I have no use for that, and it takes me too long to make money for decos... well it used to. Other choices they made compelled people to start pricing things well above my cap. I have no fun in the game proper now, but this stream clearly told me I'm supposed to have fun playing the game their way.

This is really much bigger than a gearing issue. Metric are nice but they forget that numbers are activities not reasons. People might do something you didn't intend because you didn't allow for them to do what they wanted straight up. I get that I'm not a target demographic here but from the sounds of it, people from a large range of play styles are feeling the squeeze of Dev approved play.

The fact is it seems like they have had a running problem with that last statement since launch.  They are trying various ways THEY want you to play, but clearly less and less people are finding THEIR way fun.

Simply put - people pay monthly subs for content.  No CONTENT (not repeated daily raids/quests/FP no matter what you call them and throw rng boxes at them), then they have no reason to keep subbing.

This expansion has given most people no reason to sub beyond the one month it takes to see all the new actual content.  And this game clearly isn't staying alive on its high level raiding population.

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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #22 on: 12/08/16, 07:36:11 PM »
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While I can see that raiders probably did pull the a lot of weight in the game, I would just be happy if they ease up on the pigeon hole-ing. Stop making everything bind or legacy or bind on pick up to force people to do content they don't want to do. Make Heroics daily again, so I can run the handful I can stand to do still. By the way, I still hate the killik warren heroics on Alderaan. :sigh:

Introduce new credit vendors to sell things people want, or even direct sales to stop the carrot on a telescoping stick from getting out of hand. Let me get flashpoint decorations more easily solo, so I don't have to try to chase other players down or mess up other people's schedules just to get it, apparently I lag behind in FPs which makes me less inclined to run them with other.s I felt like I could barely keep up.

Add new rewards to old events instead of telling people how good they are each time. My goodness, did you see how short the life day segment of the stream was? They spent more time talking about the splash page art that will be sold with the 5th anniversary event. They didn't even state that the wampa is an upcoming companion. I thought they were going to come back to it later it was so short.

I understand that my view of what an MMO can be and is differs from purist views. I've had that conversation with another player before. Yet, I don't think that means that it can't be accommodated. I move aside for the elements that are more "true" to the genre, and I don't expect Devs to spend a whole development cycle on the stuff I like, but I would really appreciate not getting squeezed out of the game. It is a nice game even if missions hold only passing interest for me.
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Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #23 on: 12/08/16, 08:01:27 PM »
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While I can see that raiders probably did pull the a lot of weight in the game, I would just be happy if they ease up on the pigeon hole-ing. Stop making everything bind or legacy or bind on pick up to force people to do content they don't want to do. Make Heroics daily again, so I can run the handful I can stand to do still. By the way, I still hate the killik warren heroics on Alderaan. :sigh:

Introduce new credit vendors to sell things people want, or even direct sales to stop the carrot on a telescoping stick from getting out of hand. Let me get flashpoint decorations more easily solo, so I don't have to try to chase other players down or mess up other people's schedules just to get it, apparently I lag behind in FPs which makes me less inclined to run them with other.s I felt like I could barely keep up.

Add new rewards to old events instead of telling people how good they are each time. My goodness, did you see how short the life day segment of the stream was? They spent more time talking about the splash page art that will be sold with the 5th anniversary event. They didn't even state that the wampa is an upcoming companion. I thought they were going to come back to it later it was so short.

I understand that my view of what an MMO can be and is differs from purist views. I've had that conversation with another player before. Yet, I don't think that means that it can't be accommodated. I move aside for the elements that are more "true" to the genre, and I don't expect Devs to spend a whole development cycle on the stuff I like, but I would really appreciate not getting squeezed out of the game. It is a nice game even if missions hold only passing interest for me.

Heh, ever tried Secret World? :)  (They moved off what the truer elements are because they know they can't keep up with content; so they up rewards for what's already there and give lore and stuff...).

Cuz yea I'm with you. 

The game still feels like Blizzard 5 years ago; and none of the decisions they've made or even the "new mechanics" are anything different then what has lost them tot his point anyway.

Course returning BACK to Sith Vs. Republic Could very well do it.

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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #24 on: 12/08/16, 08:22:29 PM »
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I haven't, but isn't secret world a subscription game?

They could probably turn back to Sith Empire vs Republic if the make the Commander choose a side to fight for, but they lost me at rule the galaxy. My Jedi's or troopers would never just scoot whoever off the droid throne and pick up where they left off, even if my character did have extensive input around the galaxy. My smugglers wouldn't want that kind of responsibility and obligation. Though, I will state that there is the potential for an excellent story of your character having to fend off an upstart like themselves that is determined to topple your reign and they make fair headway.

However, part of SWTOR's problem seems to be like what someone said on the main forum. They appear to be trying to get subs twice. It's been clear since KOTFE that they want to be a Sub Only Game, but they really want to be Sub Only Game with Benefits. They want to charge subs for every little extra thing, and that seems to be making an all around mess.

Seems to me they should go back to nickle and dime-ing non subs like me but let us be in the mix then ease up on subs and use incentive not compulsion. If you keep dangling a carrot on a stick and push it farther and farther out, people will just give up on the carrot and go look for something else. Let people get what they want out of the game.
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Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #25 on: 12/08/16, 08:53:08 PM »
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I haven't, but isn't secret world a subscription game?

You can, or you can just buy the content as it is released (or in big for sale bundles like at Xmas time), in 10/15 dollar increments and then never pay another penny past the purchase of the game itself. 

If you sub you get your monthly funcom points (CC coins), you can save up that more than covers any content releases in the game (and they've promised that and kept to it), you also get some xp bonuses - but nothing that breaks the game at *all* if you don't have it.  The game doesn't "level" things that way.

But unlike Bioware they don't try to make it a "sub or else this sucks" game.  It really is up to you.  You can sub and get all the content stuff and never have to pay another penny again except for fluff stuff (that there is plenty of in game as well).  No in game coin limits, no mail limits, no raid or group or guild or anything limits.  No limits other than you pay for new content.  People who sub for Secret World do it because they love the game and want to support it.

I bought a grandmaster at 200 bucks 3 months after launch and have only ever basically donated them money (TAKE MY MONEY NOW I THROW IT AT THEM!) because of the fluff I will spend the cash on.  I've gotten every collector edition of each content release (for bonus fluff too!) and still not had to pay money out of what I hadn't already gotten in Funcom Points that had built up each month.

They also have a lot of RNG boxes and such, but you can again ignore it entirely - and buy the crap it drops off the Auction House during the events.  I pay 20 bucks for every mount they will give me, and then ignore most of the RNG boxes for IRL money because it is (more) easily bought on the AH.  The community there is more charitable and overall more helpful/giving.  (There's actually an RNG Box that gives you a free awesome dance by opening it around 10 other people - and everyone gets something! They are very popular.)

So you really can just pay for what you want and get the rest of the game and story along with it. 

So when there's not real story content for six months; you don't feel so bad for not playing as much (or at all).  But if you want to go back and get all the acheivements and lores that give you shirts and fluff stuff you can do that.  Or run raids and elites or help newbies or RP or play the whole game over again and still get exp for it a fourth time.  And they just put in player Museums (no cost) - basically their version of Housing but its a giant Hall where statues and other decor spawn from various achievements in game (from solo play to elite/grind).  Your friends can all come visit.  Its *extremely* grindy to get the really big statue/decorations stuff - but it IS reward for doing the same stuff people already had been doing since launch.

I've loved it and wished I could find more things to buy.  But I love the scifi/horror genre of the whole thing (thank goodness!) and its such a nice break from anything remotely "WoW" Feeling.  I can solo play it and love it and then leave for two months and feel fresh again when I pick it back up, ready to play. 

I solo play here, finish the chapter, and never care to do it again. :/

It really does feel like a different type of MMORPG style of play (for me).  Unlike SWTOR which just seems like its trying to take the easier margin of what's already popular in order to make a buck.


Quote
They could probably turn back to Sith Empire vs Republic if the make the Commander choose a side to fight for, but they lost me at rule the galaxy. My Jedi's or troopers would never just scoot whoever off the droid throne and pick up where they left off, even if my character did have extensive input around the galaxy. My smugglers wouldn't want that kind of responsibility and obligation. Though, I will state that there is the potential for an excellent story of your character having to fend off an upstart like themselves that is determined to topple your reign and they make fair headway.

Oh I quite agree.  As MMORPG as they want their player base to pay for - they just don't really seem to want to give them any type of multiplayer plot line.  As interesting or whatever you enjoy about how the story is - it is very clearly (to me anyway) meant for solo play and solo world-view (as if you were in say KOTOR or I don't know.. Mass Effect...Dragon Age.  :sigh:).

"Oh but then at the end EVERYONE TOGETHER."
But we are all awesome Gods in Charge!
"WHATEVER TOGETHER - AND HERE's SOME GAMBLING FOR YOUR REWARD TOO!"

Quote
However, part of SWTOR's problem seems to be like what someone said on the main forum. They appear to be trying to get subs twice. It's been clear since KOTFE that they want to be a Sub Only Game, but they really want to be Sub Only Game with Benefits. They want to charge subs for every little extra thing, and that seems to be making an all around mess.

Seems to me they should go back to nickle and dime-ing non subs like me but let us be in the mix then ease up on subs and use incentive not compulsion. If you keep dangling a carrot on a stick and push it farther and farther out, people will just give up on the carrot and go look for something else. Let people get what they want out of the game.

Quite agree.  THey want the steady income of the sub only game and the cash influx/profits of a B2P with a cash store.  And gamers just aren't going to spend that for something that can't keep up with plot content and group content; not in the current over-flooded market.

And all it does is piss both sides off.  The Subbers and the "Preferred" and the "Freebiums"

Funcom manages a much better balance with this one IMO.  Are they rolling in cash? Not at all.  But they are staying in the black and keeping content and NEW holiday events (almost every year, every holiday) rolling.  And playing in that game doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.

(Though people are getting antsy; little too much new RNG bags and little less word ON that next patch right now lol).

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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #26 on: 12/08/16, 09:32:01 PM »
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I really hope the story about China demanding that games with gamble list odds up front is true. If so, it might slow down the gamble box trend or perhaps convince companies to increase odds. I do expect that game companies will try to limit this to China if it is true, though.

I'll go look at Secret World and see if it's a game I could play.

Part of me hopes Bioware only make the changes they announced today then go on vacation. I just want to see what will happen. Bioware has wiggled out of a lot of bad decisions so far: contraband slot machine, companion nerf, changing how packs work, taking away the original companions, ect. No company is untouchable, however. One of these times the backlash will be enough to really get their attention and make them try to switch gears on not taking players seriously.

Edit: Nope, I can't do it. Secret World is tooooo creepy for me. I was reading up on it at first and thinking, "This is a little creepy but ok... keep reading." Then I saw the monsters listing... This game is made of nope. Run away! :nuu:
« Last Edit: 12/08/16, 09:53:59 PM by Imazi »
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Offline Orell

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #27 on: 12/08/16, 10:43:31 PM »
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I really hope the story about China demanding that games with gamble list odds up front is true. If so, it might slow down the gamble box trend or perhaps convince companies to increase odds. I do expect that game companies will try to limit this to China if it is true, though.

...well, it won't affect SWTOR, since it's not playable in China.

But yeah, it's... likely to cause some shockwaves in the industry, given how many games operate in China, how lucrative a market it is for F2P games and that, well, the internet exists. It's one thing to know the odds are low, but to see 5%? 2%? 1%?

0.1%?

...might get some companies to, ahem, adjust the odds a bit.
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Karmic

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #28 on: 12/08/16, 11:23:31 PM »
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Edit: Nope, I can't do it. Secret World is tooooo creepy for me. I was reading up on it at first and thinking, "This is a little creepy but ok... keep reading." Then I saw the monsters listing... This game is made of nope. Run away! :nuu:

LOL!  Aww is it that scary?  Not into Lovecraftian horrors at all? :)

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Offline Imazi

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Re: 5.X Patchnotes, Updates, Guides, etc...
« Reply #29 on: 12/09/16, 07:05:32 AM »
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Oh it'll eventually affect SWTOR if it's the first indication of what I think is coming.

Gamble boxes are just that, gambling. The companies think they are slick by couching that or hiding behind tokens like cartel coins. Purchasing premium game currency means that you get exactly what you paid for every time whether your indirect purchase, the gamble box, gives you what you want or not. This allows video games to skirt normal laws and taxes associated with gambling.

If China makes this move, this may be the first step in them recognizing video games under pre-established gambling standards. After-all, why should they care now? Governments let consumers get fleeced often. However, once gamble boxes are legally recognized as gambling, the government can ride game companies like they ride players.

Once other governments see a potential new income stream, they will follow suit, including ones that have access to SWTOR. Think of what that will do to deter this practice, despite how lucrative. It would be a lot like stripping tax exemptions from certain non profit organizations. Losing that little bit of extra immunity would change how they function and organize entirely. Not to mention it already looks like the game's industry is reluctant to adhere to known gambling principles and standards in spite of relying on the exact same psychological responses.

I don't think they will like being classed as gambling games and put under any restrictions that come with that. It could slow the trend of gamble boxes significantly depending on how the law is worded.

As for Secret World... Nuh Uh... *seals the ancient evil back in the can it came out of* Not today Cthulu! :P
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