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Author Topic: Citizenship?  (Read 741 times)

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Offline Mei

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Citizenship?
« on: 05/10/17, 06:12:38 PM »
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Would citizenship be defined by ones home planet or by faction? Like "My citizenship is Alderaanian because I'm born/live in Alderaan." or would it be by Empire or Republic space the character lives in/pledges allegiance to?

Does this even make sense?
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Offline Noth

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #1 on: 05/10/17, 06:17:37 PM »
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I would imagine it's both. Local laws within the Republic probably have to conform to Republic law in order to be counted, but there's still a lot of diversity within the planets of the Republic, and we've seen they keep their native forms of government and customs while still answering to the Senate.
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Bren: Jedi Archaeologist // Iirim: Padawan Spook // Zorru: Jedi Recruiter // Aybekk: Padawan Nerd // Orans: Jedi Master
Seirion: Senatorial Aide // Varooth: Iridonian Politician // Ayrak Malid: Arbiter of Clans // Telen: Tiny Slicer

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Urziya: Mandalorian 'Diplomat' // Terr: Mandalorian Chieftain // Majia: Pirate Princess // Athuuna: Agent Cyberneticist // Zhekrazh: Mysterious Sith

Offline Karmic

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #2 on: 05/10/17, 07:28:56 PM »
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Yea I'm thinking its both too.

I know when freeing slaves Karmic has always just referred to it as "full citizen of the Empire..." since slaves are from all over.  Its up to them and their own private business (as Karmic would see it) to label their own "home planet" or whatever else they want to identify as.  :grin:

So I always think of it as both - with the "smaller umbrella" term (Alderaanian Citizen, Shaddaa Citizen, etc) being under the bigger Umbrella (Citizen of the Republic/Empire.)

And on top of that there are those (like Karmic) who have no idea where their home planet is or what it was "called" and so would only identify as an Imperial Citizen and claim no home planet specifically.  Karmic is nomadic; her "home" is her ship.  She comes from nowhere as far as she remembers and so she doesn't have a "home planet."

And I know she's certainly not a rare case - as the world gets bigger more people fall through the cracks.  Since slavery is a "thing", citizenship I think would be more a broader concept. (?)

Just my thoughts though!

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Offline Mei

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #3 on: 05/10/17, 07:42:50 PM »
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So like, my little performer was born on Alderaan, so she would be a Republic Citizen and Alderaanian, though she's now living on Dromund Kaas... like on a 'work visa' since the theatre is rebuilding in the Empire and not the Republic.....  So... would it be possible to have dual citizenship?   :write:
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Offline Karmic

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #4 on: 05/10/17, 08:40:24 PM »
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So like, my little performer was born on Alderaan, so she would be a Republic Citizen and Alderaanian, though she's now living on Dromund Kaas... like on a 'work visa' since the theatre is rebuilding in the Empire and not the Republic.....  So... would it be possible to have dual citizenship?   :write:

This is where the idea of having a dual-anything in the heart of the Empire ....has problems..

Because yea no...  I don't think that's possible.

It would be possible to forge documents saying she switched XD, or whatever...  but perhaps some type of Special Artist Status (?) Or something "in name only" indicating she's there with the permission of the Empire - "Special Ambassador Status" or something.

Because the reality of being in the Capital is just that - you're at the heart of a bunch of Sith.  For whatever reason they aren't killing you all outright (XD) nor are you being dragged into prison on Espionage charges every second weekend...  but "full dual citizenship" is a bit much (just.. my opinion..).

Special Status Granted however, well big uppity government types sign honorary crap all the time XD - we have several IC characters around who have had various things dropped/dismissed/pushed under due to "Special Consideration" letters and such lol.

To me that's much easier logic to pull off!


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Offline Noth

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #5 on: 05/10/17, 09:31:37 PM »
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Your characters are under the protection of a Sith Lord, too, so she could have them listed as her vassals or something. That would go a long way towards their protection.
Pubs

Bren: Jedi Archaeologist // Iirim: Padawan Spook // Zorru: Jedi Recruiter // Aybekk: Padawan Nerd // Orans: Jedi Master
Seirion: Senatorial Aide // Varooth: Iridonian Politician // Ayrak Malid: Arbiter of Clans // Telen: Tiny Slicer

Imps

Urziya: Mandalorian 'Diplomat' // Terr: Mandalorian Chieftain // Majia: Pirate Princess // Athuuna: Agent Cyberneticist // Zhekrazh: Mysterious Sith

Offline Zmaj

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #6 on: 05/10/17, 11:05:00 PM »
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I've always equated citizenship in the Empire to "how much clearance do you have" just so I don't have to think too hard about it (and there are so many plots afoot anyway). And yeah, to a point it doesn't matter if you're under the protection of a sith lord.

That aside, I do agree with citizenship being both. Maintaining your government (Republic/Empire) citizenship would be most important. Then you'd have citizenship granted by a planet you were born on and/or another you chose to call your permanent home or did a lot of business on. With so many planets to travel to, citizenships for individual continents would be too much detail.
Zmaj: 32, Chiss agent, lover of intrigue wine
Caesiallus: 34, Twi'lek bartender, info-broker
Varinas: 40, Human Darth, archivist, former "diplomat"

Seem: 38, Rattataki Jedi Master, resident grump
Vashya'ati: 34, Togruta Jedi Sage, small-time archaeologist
Ash'tana: 32, Miraluka smuggler, trouble-finder extraordinaire

Offline Joshmaul

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #7 on: 05/11/17, 04:51:57 AM »
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Not sure if this is still enforced, but on Dromund Kaas during the time of the novel "Revan" (in the period shortly after the KotOR games), non-Imperial citizens were designated "Subjugates". As indicated on Wookieepedia (sourced from the book): "Consisting of merchants, traders, mercenaries and even dignitaries, they were considered to all rank only slightly above servants on the Imperial capital of Dromund Kaas; no matter how much power and influence they wielded on their homeworld."
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Offline Mei

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #8 on: 05/11/17, 05:04:18 AM »
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Thanks all for your input. For me, I think keeping it simple is best. Empire and Republic as citizenship. If we think about how the Republic has a senate, that senate is made up of all the planets (or State) that fall under the Republic (or country).

So like, I'm American and I live in Texas. (American being the "Republic" and Texas being like "Ord Mantel". LOL)

But I would have to agree that dual citizenship might be an issue in this world. LOL
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Offline Karmic

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #9 on: 05/11/17, 07:22:30 AM »
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Not sure if this is still enforced, but on Dromund Kaas during the time of the novel "Revan" (in the period shortly after the KotOR games), non-Imperial citizens were designated "Subjugates". As indicated on Wookieepedia (sourced from the book): "Consisting of merchants, traders, mercenaries and even dignitaries, they were considered to all rank only slightly above servants on the Imperial capital of Dromund Kaas; no matter how much power and influence they wielded on their homeworld."

Ooh that works too.

Or at the very least, realize the attitude you'll need to adopt when running into the Sith who very much want to make it clear you are NOT Imperial and NOT at all near their status... :). 

Always good to have the backup "oh Yes Sir of course Sir..." smile and nod... LOL.

History Posts:  Her Backstory , Darth-Hood

Offline Mei

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #10 on: 05/11/17, 07:24:17 AM »
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LOL Katia has that smile and nod down!!
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Offline Nicohlas

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #11 on: 05/12/17, 09:31:11 AM »
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Concerning Imperial citizenship. There is an obvious hierarchy of those living in the Sith Empire which seems to follow the structure of (all below quotes are from the novel Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan):

     * Sith.

     * Citizen. So seemingly many humans and Sith purebloods living on planets officially incorporated as part of the Sith Empire hold citizenship status. The Sith seem to be set above this moniker and I'm unsure if aliens are able to attain this status since the implementation of the Alien Initiatives. Given its culture, the Sith Empire most assuredly does NOT recognize dual citizenship. Special accommodations are likely made for Chiss assigned to missions in Imperial-controlled territories.

          * But Bosthirda had been part of the Empire for hundreds of years. Its people were full citizens, with all the rights and privileges of those on Dromund Kaas. This seems to suggest that citizenship status in the Sith Empire is a political label applied across all its territories. That's not to say that if someone is born on Dromund Kaas, Dromund Fels, Ziost, Bosthirda or what have you, that they would not have some identity as being from a particular planet.

     * Subjugate.

          * The Subjugates—the caste of offworld merchants, traders, dignitaries, and visitors from planets not yet granted full status in the Empire..... On their homeworlds they might be rich and powerful, but here on Dromund Kaas they were well aware that they ranked only slightly above the servants and slaves.

          * It wasn’t unusual for Subjugate mercenaries from other worlds to visit Dromund Kaas. Some came seeking profit, hiring their services out to the highest bidder; others came to prove their value to the Empire in the hope of one day being granted the rare privilege of full Imperial citizenship.

     * Indentured servant

     * Slave.

          * In the Sith Empire slavery was a societal institution, governed by laws and regulations and seemingly accepted without question by the citizens. Slaves were symbols of rank; the wealthy and powerful used them as status symbols to be paraded out in front of their peers.

          *There were human slaves, of course, but these were individuals born into the lower ranks of society, or those who had fallen through their own failures and weakness. Unlike other lesser species, they were not persecuted or discriminated against in any real way. There were no laws limiting their movements, no restrictions on what rank or position they could hold.

            Humans could rise to the highest ranks of the Imperial military; a number of worlds were even ruled by wealthy and powerful human families; and the Emperor had appointed many humans to serve on the Dark Council.


Some additional game lore info:

* The Imperial Citizenship Bureau keeps records of all citizens in the Sith Empire.

* All Imperial citizens seemingly hold a government-issued citizen's security clearance.

Offline Mei

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #12 on: 05/12/17, 10:10:17 AM »
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Thanks Nic!

So yes, Katia and her family would totally be at the Subjugate status, which is where I always had them in my mind across the galaxy (they are from Alderaan, but not part of the noble society, and aren't extremely wealthy despite having fame). Though it would seem their status is much lower in rank within the Empire than it would be in the Republic (considering there is no slavery there and the laws are more free).

This rank works perfectly for figuring out the Koshkovs! And may even be a bit of a cultural shock for young Katia. :grin:
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Offline Noth

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #13 on: 05/12/17, 02:08:22 PM »
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This rank works perfectly for figuring out the Koshkovs! And may even be a bit of a cultural shock for young Katia. :grin:

Always happy to throw my toons at her for some more culture shock. :P

And Nic, thanks for that reference!
Pubs

Bren: Jedi Archaeologist // Iirim: Padawan Spook // Zorru: Jedi Recruiter // Aybekk: Padawan Nerd // Orans: Jedi Master
Seirion: Senatorial Aide // Varooth: Iridonian Politician // Ayrak Malid: Arbiter of Clans // Telen: Tiny Slicer

Imps

Urziya: Mandalorian 'Diplomat' // Terr: Mandalorian Chieftain // Majia: Pirate Princess // Athuuna: Agent Cyberneticist // Zhekrazh: Mysterious Sith

Offline Mei

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Re: Citizenship?
« Reply #14 on: 05/12/17, 02:34:48 PM »
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Haha!!! Thanks Noth!!!!!! :music:
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