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What night is best for an Indie Night revamp?

Monday
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Tuesday
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3 (17.6%)
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Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3  (Read 2588 times)

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Offline Noth

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #45 on: 03/05/18, 07:56:54 PM »
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Hey guys, so... The entire point of this event being open world is so that RP can happen whether or not I am there to organize it. It doesn't need an organizer, because it's not in a SH. Consistently, every time I'm late or not able to go, it just doesn't happen. But I know when I'm around to organize things, we get a pretty decent crowd. I feel like that means there's still interest, so I'm scratching my head figuring out why people consistently do not come if I'm not there. Such was that case today: I was an hour late, and arrived to find nobody around.

I am at Rishi right now and ready to RP, but it's making me wonder what's going on here...

Are people not interested in this event?
What's preventing people from coming and RPing on their own?
Is it an issue with not having clear directions to locations?
Is it an issue with the planet itself?
Are people just not interested in their independent characters?
Is the day a bad one for people?
Is there any way I can clarify or improve the locations listing or the way this is advertized on the forums so that it's easier for people to attend on their own?
« Last Edit: 03/05/18, 08:12:24 PM by Noth »
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Mei

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #46 on: 03/05/18, 10:09:56 PM »
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I personally love the idea of Indie/Rishi Night. I don't always have my Indie type characters ICly where they would need to be to attend such a thing, but I'm also working on that. XD

Are people not interested in this event? I totally am interested!
What's preventing people from coming and RPing on their own? I'm usually in bed earlier than I am tonight :grin: or I have Monday Brain and forget (or get caught up in personal RP).
Is it an issue with not having clear directions to locations? Not for me when I have come. Either very clear or I'm grouped and can find you :grin:
Is it an issue with the planet itself? Fie! I LOVE Rishi! Palm trees and beaches!! I've always wanted more RP on this rock. :aww:
Are people just not interested in their independent characters? This is not applicable to me. I love my Indie Characters (because they sort of are ALL my characters from a certain point of view).
Is the day a bad one for people? Mondays tend to be a hectic day for me, but my schedule is pretty 'tight'.
Is there any way I can clarify or improve the locations listing or the way this is advertized on the forums so that it's easier for people to attend on their own? Hm. I mean, I know its happening and sometimes I fail to look at the calendar. For some reason I thought it started at 7:30p PST, but it is an hour earlier (which is more ideal for me, so that's my own fail). I'll think on this and see if I can come up with something. I mean, for me, it's all very clear (except for on my own fails LOL).
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Offline Ash

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #47 on: 03/05/18, 10:36:43 PM »
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I always try to make it to Rishi not, but with recent events I'm currently going to be working till 12 a.m. on mondays. So sadly, I can never make it to rishi night unless it changes or the schedule opens up >.>
Pub side characters: Ash'ette, Shaan Lix

Imp side characters: Shaan-Lix, Jannet, Priestess Mava

Offline Karmic

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #48 on: 03/06/18, 10:29:11 AM »
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Intentions or not - "humans" are just less likely to attend on a night they know a major figure of the event is not likely to be there. 

Always had this issue - not just SWTOR, but across RP platforms.   Maybe it causes a domino effect - where people are questioning "will I go tonight or not hrm?" and then find out a major player isn't going which makes them just go to the side of "no - I don't know if anyone else is going to show up". 

Or maybe when there's no one in game doing shoutouts across the OOC channels - the people who would otherwise go don't initiate a call out themselves (Again - odd human nature thing, I dont know why) and therefore the word doesn't go out that people are gathering.

Or that a few people end up showing up but they don't see anyone there when they do show up and instead of poking in OOC they wander on - when sticking around 10-15 more minutes would have found them all finding each other.  Again don't know why people don't speak up, but they don't (and some never will).

I see that a lot on slow Dancer' nights.  If 2-4 show up really early, one at a time (especially) they may see it being very low pop and move on to do other things, when if they'd stuck around another 20 minutes people who were "running by to see who was there" would see more people there and everyone would stick around.  So instead of 3 people, 20 minutes later there are 10.  When if each of those 3 people had left not seeing anyone, no one would have stuck around.

It also works the opposite way around - many a night in games past I've sat "alone" at a busy cross-roads in an RPMMO and in 45 minutes I've gathered 10 people around who only stopped because I was stopped.  And stuck around to RP because I was Rping.  Use to even make a game of it some nights, "How many people can we get to stop and hang out to RP with us all night just by sitting here."  And end up having hours of RP just because we gathered in one place, and so other people gathered.  I don't know the term for it, but it works.

Maybe its the fact that no matter the window dressing changing - "free for all RP" nights just aren't what get people to turn out.  I know in the past the one request of events was "just don't make it free conversing we need topic/guidance/etc. we have enough cantina nights (with just DP)".  So when you're having week after week of various bars/marketplaces/etc. people don't feel they have any "new conversation" to have and so don't show up as often (?).  Despite the setting, its still the "same free-idle-topic" RP (?).

Just a series of ideas from my experiences of MMOevent hostess and attending over the past 10 or so years lol.

I mean I don't know what a "busy" Indie night looks like for you guys - an average at DP is 8-12 most Fridays.  But I know on weeks that me and Stell both post being out - things are often much slower.  And there have been Fridays where its been 4-5 all night, counting hostesses. 

We have a small RP population with a small subset going to be playing Indies; and just as small or smaller subset providing "jobs" for those indies, and an even smaller subset going to be able to give Indies actual plots to get into.  Maybe the weekly "marketplace/cantina" RPs are just not enough topic/meat to keep people going week after week without a host; and taking this to a twice a month or more "Plan/plot" once a month sessions would be more fun and successful for all?

Karmic's not indie enough (apparently) as the one time she went to check out the peeps to think about conducting business with the assorted types she was targeted and harassed and not made to feel that people there were looking for contracts or business dealings.  (business with her Outer Rim Corp which deals with everyone and is definitely more Indie on the Rim, not Sith business).  Not a target I wish to put on my head again /lol/. 


~~

TLDR:  Without a host or at least someone to get attention for call-outs to remind people to come and to show them that people are there and RPing - then Risihi night could be the same as any random RP night on Fleet where people don't know if anyone else is showing up or not.  You're expecting people to just "show up and random RP" given a different backdrop, and they just aren't going to because "random cantina RP" (which a marketplace or beach is without a host) is no longer (or looks to be no longer...) incentive enough to get our population to login multiple nights a week on a weekly basis. 

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Offline Noth

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #49 on: 03/06/18, 12:45:12 PM »
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@Mei - Good to hear it! I think I'll make a better point of clarifying the time in each of my update posts on this thread each week. That way it's fresh in people's minds!

@Ash - Sorry to hear that. :( If Mondays do not work for people, is there a night that would work better?

@Karmic - Actually, the night isn't just a cantina night. See the list at the start of the thread. Each location has a different theme and a story hook to go alongside it. There are only a handful of actual 'cantina' type scenarios, the others are market squares, fighting arenas, speeder races, etc.

If it's just an issue of people calling out in the chat, then you guys can help with that! Do you want to see Indie Night continue to exist? Then just log in and shout out "I'm heading to Rishi! Come join me for some RP if you want to!" at event start. If people are really struggling to gather RP themselves, then would anyone like to volunteer to do that on a regular basis?
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Biavi

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #50 on: 03/06/18, 12:49:03 PM »
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So, I'm not a major player in the RP scene on this server, but I am definitely interested in Indie Night. I have several characters with an independent or underworld background, but I struggle with feeling unwelcome, mostly due to my social anxiety. I also tend to struggle with freeform RP--without a clear goal, I struggle with what my character wants to say.

The other main issue I have is that Mondays. I can't do Mondays because I'm a full time student with classes until late in the evening server time on Mondays. My weekends are my best days but since most people prefer to RP in the evenings server time, that would limit it for me to after 8pm server on Saturdays, and Friday/Sunday nights.

(I also feel I should clarify that it's no one's fault that I feel unwelcome--it's 99% me.)

I hope you all come to a solution that works for the most people.
« Last Edit: 03/06/18, 12:51:45 PM by Biavi »
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Impside:
Biavi: jerkface, bounty hunter
Ileyn/Lord Osso: paranoid tech nerd Sith
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Niwava: older padawan; fun past
Omyara: smuggler; jokester

Offline Karmic

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #51 on: 03/06/18, 03:13:56 PM »
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@Mei - Good to hear it! I think I'll make a better point of clarifying the time in each of my update posts on this thread each week. That way it's fresh in people's minds!

@Ash - Sorry to hear that. :( If Mondays do not work for people, is there a night that would work better?

@Karmic - Actually, the night isn't just a cantina night. See the list at the start of the thread. Each location has a different theme and a story hook to go alongside it. There are only a handful of actual 'cantina' type scenarios, the others are market squares, fighting arenas, speeder races, etc.

Hence why I said "cantina night in a different setting."  If someone isn't there to "host" fighting arenas or the speed racers, then its another cantina night - for the Roleplayers who show up without direction/specific plot to play out (most Rpers).  Marketplace is cantina night standing in front of NPC stalls.  Its up to the player to establish a reason for showing up, its up to the player to voice the NPCs, its up to the player to provide conversational direction.

Which is the same as an open cantina night, outside of the first 10 minutes of conversation about what's going on/what they are buying.

It is what it is.  If someone's not directing how the speed races work, then people will mill about and RP like its cantina night - maybe a couple will race, maybe not.  If there's not players playing merchants at marketplace - same thing - players will show up, RP being at a stall (maybe) and the rest is the same.  If you're showing up to arena fight night and there's not anyone organizing fights, same thing - freeform RP.   (Heck when we had fight nights even once a month... ran out of contenders in under a year.)

I agree that it sucks people can be like that - to show up and then have no desire or inkling to just "start it up themselves", but its the nature of the beast.  The nature of humans in a group - diffused responsibility.  Until one person takes it upon themselves to step up and take responsibility, the nights will rarely move beyond that "free form RP" (i.e. cantina).  But then that person becomes "host",  :aww: , even for the night - and the idea of "hostless" isn't what's working. /lol/

I think its GREAT that you guys have all these ideas for settings; but they are all still "Free form RP" without someone present to move the event along, get people signed up and in a list of some type (for racing, fighting.., etc.etc. ).  I've spent years railing about this fact - but to no avail, it is what it is. 

Whether its one person, or 4 people, some consistent group of "SOMEONES" has to show up on a regular basis to keep an event populated and on people's radar.

Which is why these going biweekly or once a month may just be better for the whole community - to prevent burnout on "Open free form" RP nights and to give any and all the "regular" attendees or hosts for events more time in between to plan or just gives them permission to take the time off.

Quote
If it's just an issue of people calling out in the chat, then you guys can help with that! Do you want to see Indie Night continue to exist? Then just log in and shout out "I'm heading to Rishi! Come join me for some RP if you want to!" at event start. If people are really struggling to gather RP themselves, then would anyone like to volunteer to do that on a regular basis?

Well having nothing to do on Mondays in game anymore, I'm not usually logged in at all.  If I was I would!

Just be aware, anyone volunteering to show up every week to do the shout-out job more consistently (esp. if no actual "Leader" is there as regularly to help out) - becomes the defacto leader and host/hostess of the event.  :grin:

Big chunk of Karmic becoming co-owner/hostess of DP was she just started showing up and doing it- unasked (really, not even oocily, I just started standing near the entrance and saying hello to people - because I knew doing that helps events gain traction).  Didn't take long before people thought it was Karmic owning and throwing the whole thing... =D (Poor Stell...) long before I had anything to do with DP officially.

But yes -  I imagine to grab the people who aren't here as regularly (or who don't login a day or so before the event), on both Factions, it would probably improve consistent attendance to have people who can announce it a few times.

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Offline Ash

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #52 on: 03/06/18, 04:53:01 PM »
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Indie Night certainly is a conundrum considering everything. It's just hard to get everyone in one place and to make it a event where people can know why they're going and what to do.

One thing we can do is use the SH I've been using and sorta use that as a goto place for free roaming rp or to host a indie night! I've been decorating it and building it up for the better part of three months and it's at a point where it can suit most general purposes! It's got a staging room for making plans and whatnot, a bar, a recruitmentish room, a battle arena, a dancer's room, even a self made spa! If anything it'd just be a good "to go to" place to start something up without too much planning. Basically a place where anyone can go to do most things! It's an idea at the very least and may help out with this whole problem.
Pub side characters: Ash'ette, Shaan Lix

Imp side characters: Shaan-Lix, Jannet, Priestess Mava

Offline Noth

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #53 on: 03/06/18, 10:51:37 PM »
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General gist of replies is "We want adventure and not free-form RP" but... Unless other people are willing to step up and run things, that isn't going to happen. I can't come up with some new adventures and run it every single week. That's too much work and too much energy. The loose structure exists for the reason of making sure this event can happen every week, since people aren't exactly stepping up to run events for it.

And we aren't going to use a SH. That was the biggest problem with the first time we tried to hold this. Because there weren't people to do invites across both factions, people physically were not able to come to the SH every week. It's open world because we wanted the area to be easily accessible and to be available even when we didn't have active hosts on every faction.

I am not going to be able to come up with some adventure every single week to run for people, full stop. I'm already running enough adventures. If Mondays are a problem we can fix that, though. What I need to know from all of you is if you are interested and willing to come, what days and times work best for you?
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Karmic

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #54 on: 03/07/18, 11:06:10 AM »
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And I hope, Noth, you understand, I (and I'm sure everyone else) were not suggesting you run weekly events! 

My general point was, "Of course "we' (you, the community, etc) don't have the ability to have weekly (or biweekly) GMed events!"  Not trying for that - that's too much for anyone!

Definitely have the discussion for a re-do of a better night - easy suggestion/fix (for those who participate and I hope they will vote on a new night!)

I was *only suggesting* to take the pressure off of you (or everyone) for the event, may also want to switch to having it once a month (or at most biweekly) to help with the lack of things "for people to do/talk about" in the general community.

But never did I mean to imply "Noth - you have to come up with something every week!"  Instead I was saying a more generally directed, "This is the norm when you have a night with noone putting things together.  Humans are irksome that way.  Don't feel like you're dropping the ball or anything - just realize its the nature of the beast and give yourself a break!" :)

~~
And as much as we love Ash's offer - I agree with Noth.  A SH doesn't fix the issue.

We have tons of "community available anytime!" SH (just check our forum listings and then there are more that are on there even!).  I have one myself.

But if its not a "hosted" event - SH or not - you'll have the same attendance issue.  People could show up to any one of a dozen or more "community open SH" any night of the week and RP - but they don't.  Its not for lack of settings.  Its small population + even smaller GM storytellers = little need for "free form" nights without plot/event.  There's only so many times a week you can bring out your characters to "talk about nothing at all" with same slew of other people's characters coming out to talk about "nothing at all" before you hit that wall of "Well now what?" :)

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Offline LVT

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #55 on: 03/07/18, 05:36:35 PM »
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Keep in mind it doesn't need to be an adventure so much as there needs to be a group discussion point to not be a cantina night. Doesn't have to nearly be so heavy, after all; Zakuul night rarely had adventures as did not War Room.
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Lashila Sellara (25, Grey Sith)         Harkasone Milan (29, Philanthropist)
Reill Farr(31, Silent Mandalorian)     Mystenin Felsa (26, 'Green' Jedi)
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Offline Karmic

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #56 on: 03/07/18, 08:00:00 PM »
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Keep in mind it doesn't need to be an adventure so much as there needs to be a group discussion point to not be a cantina night. Doesn't have to nearly be so heavy, after all; Zakuul night rarely had adventures as did not War Room.

Actually - Both those nights had hosts/hostesses that worked pretty regularly to make sure there were topics of discussion, people who wanted to talk.

Not every week. But there were scheduled topics and a clear "leader" of the event (at one point entire guilds).  Zakul had a specific purpose and people were bringing plots forward to discuss as well.  There was more direction in the game (so we had a clear goal) AND more players than now too, so more grist for RP.

THere WERE weeks where nothing was discussed (quite a number of them), and those meetings usually ended in 45 minutes or less, and that was the end of it.  When there was no "new topic" on the table, it was over and people left.  Not many hung around to free chat afterwards, unless something specific had happened.

Same thing at War Room.  When guilds and people had plot to present, we had topics.  We even had several "speakers". 

But there were weeks nothing much was discussed - meeting was over in an hour, unless people just liked rehashing the same argument we had the last few weeks (popular among the Sith especially lol), people didn't stick around after for chats.

They were never free-chat gatherings, they were meetings with a purpose.  And the weeks it had no purpose, then it was called early.


History Posts:  Her Backstory , Darth-Hood

Offline Noth

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #57 on: 03/07/18, 11:00:39 PM »
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A War Room situation still requires more than one person coming up with ideas and focuses each week. The problem is that if I'm not there nobody comes. If you feel it lacks focus, and want focus, then more people will need to step up and go "Hey how about we dicuss X topic tonight?" or "How about we do this thing tonight?"

Part of the point of Indie Night was to inject life into the Indie community again, so that there would be people making connections, telling stories, striking ideas to branch off of. Like a Meet and Greet for independent characters. As far as I know there aren't really stories happening to talk about, so if I'm wrong, let me know by claiming a night for your plotline!

The other problem with a War Room scenario is that by it's very nature, independent RP doesn't lend itself to, well... honesty. If you're a thief, you don't tell random people your thieving plans. If you're a bounty hunter, you don't announce to the competition who you're going after. So I don't think a War Room scenario exactly works for the theme.

Still need to know what days you all are most able to come!
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Noth

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #58 on: 03/07/18, 11:33:59 PM »
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Okay so, as I see it, there are two main problems here:

1. Mondays aren't good for people. Monday was, at the start of this, voted to be overwhelmingly the best day to host it on. If that's changed, I need people to post and tell me what days work for you and what times. If there aren't enough responses to give a good idea of consensus, we'll stick with Monday.

2. People have trouble coming up with ideas for the night if I'm not there. If that's a case, I have an easy solution:

     Step 1: Pick a spot from the list below by putting the list through Random Picker. You now have your location.

Quote
Rishi - South Beach Party: Beach Party! Take off your boots, kick around in the water, and enjoy the beaches of Rishi.
Rishi - Blaster's Path Cantina: Cantina night at the classic Blaster's Path Cantina. Enjoy the music and drinks and grungy ambiance. Bar brawls encouraged!
Rishi - Old City Boardwalk: Part marketplace, part hangout, part street cafe, the tropical boardwalk has something for everyone.
Rishi - Gorge Hollow Barbeque: Picnic on tropical grasses and under sunny palms! Like the beach party, but a different location.
Rishi - Bootlegger's Marketplace: Tour the market squares of Rishi, going stall to stall and seeing what the merchants have to offer. A market with no NPCs required.
Rishi - Coastal Slums Market: Impromptu market under the docks, with no rules or interference. Shady black market characters required to buy and sell wares and intel.
Rishi - Inlet Slums Dock Show: Ship auction on the docks. Check out the merchandise, haggle for starships and starship parts, and enjoy seeing the snazzy rides.
Rishi - Inlet Slums Junker's Brawl: Bring your brawlers and sharpshooters to the waste pits of the Inlet Slums for an unglamorous, but profitable, fighting arena.
Rishi - Trader's Causeway Speeder Races: Gather above and beneath the northwest corner of the Trader's causeway to compete in and watch speeder racing!
Rishi - Warehouse Rave: Mix business and pleasure at the Old City warehouse cantina. Drink, dance on the docks, and deal business in back rooms.

     Step 2: Generate a simple plot using The Writer's Plot Generator or Random Plot Generator. You now have the basic sketch or focus for an event.

     Step 3: Go "I'm heading to Indie Night! Come join me!" in the OOC channels.

That said, neither of the above problems explain why people only come when I'm there to start the event. They explain why a few people who might not be interested otherwise haven't been going, but not why people who do come otherwise don't start something up if I'm online at, say, 7:30 instead of 6:30. That's the part that has me scratching my head. Dancer's and Jedi Night still start even if the 'hosts' aren't online, so I don't quite get why this one is the exception. If you guys want to talk about your plots, you have to actually go and talk about your plots. If it's an issue of lacking a focus, you can use the random generators up above.
The Jedi: Bren (Archaeologist), Iirim (Healer), Zorru (Recruiter), Orans (Master), Aybekk (Padawan)
The Politicians: Varooth (Senator), Seirion (Aide/Spy), Ayrak (King)
The Mandos: Urziya (Rallymaster), Terr (Chieftain)
The Outlaws: Telen (Slicer), Majia (Pirate/Smuggler)
The Imperials: Athuuna (Agent), Zhekrazh (Lord), Z'ridia (Apprentice)

Offline Auryn

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Re: Return to Rishi - Indie Night V3
« Reply #59 on: 03/08/18, 12:27:30 AM »
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Hi Nothiroth! I don't come to these often - it's just been bad timing lately - but the one time I did come I really enjoyed the snippy back-and-forth between Feyda and Urz!

I ticked Tuesday (server I assume) as my preferred day, because that's Wed for me and I think it's generally free-er than my Tuesday.

For the record I don't think it's entirely fair to put so much onus on Noth to keep things running - y'all have brains, the space is there, ready and waiting, don't be shy! :aww: I don't think there's supposed to be an expectation for whoever is 'hosting' Rishi Night to have to run it like a GM. at DP its Hosts don't micromanage everyone, they let people do their thing, I don't see why it isn't/can't be the same on Rishi. Grow! Learn! Run into the cantina screaming saying a Houk is chasing you with a laser canon and 'OH PLEASE GOD HELP!' and see what happens! Throw random ideas down and let the RP write itself :D
My drawing was not of a hat.
It was of a boa constrictor digesting an elephant.



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