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Author Topic: Solo: A Spoiler Thread  (Read 1323 times)

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Offline Hawking

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Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« on: 05/24/18, 11:27:15 PM »
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A place for discussion regarding the new film. Obviously spoilers will abound, so enter at your own risk!


Personally, I was in the camp that believed that we never needed or wanted this film and that it would probably be a mess due to all the behind the scenes nonsense that was going on.

And yet, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. This is my favourite of the Great Evil Mouse's Star Wars films. It felt in keeping with the OT without being self-indulgent as Rogue One was. It was smartly written in a way that the ST hasn't been. The supporting cast were absolutely fantastic. The story was simple but effective, and the moments we were all dreading (goddamnit they're gonna do the Kessel Run, and it's gonna be lame), actually turned out to be done superbly. This film was like a big budget SmugCo adventure, including a bit involving a giant space demon in dark space that @blingdenston may want to push a lawsuit over.

I have to admit I was wrong regarding the casting of Han. Alden Ehrenreich may not look like Harrison Ford, but he absolutely gets the character. Han was fantastic, and seeing his canonical meeting with Chewie and the bond that grew from it was great. Donald Glover also nails it as Lando. Emilia Clarke is better here than in 7 seasons of Game of Thrones.

The cinematography and visuals were what stole the show for me, however. The planets and locations were memorable and wonderful. Kessel looked like something out of a Star Wars videogame from the 90s. The Maelstrom was gorgeous and terrifying. The aesthetics of the still-emerging Galactic Empire was super cool to see after having a number of films with all of that stuff already established; half-built star destroyers, conscripted soldiers wearing proto-Stormtrooper armour invading worlds in the quest for expansion. (Special shout-out to that last bit, the war sequence in Solo was a better war film than the entirety of Rogue One).

Most of all, the film was fun. It was a lot of fun, and would have been an enjoyable action-adventure romp even without the Star Wars label. It just so happens that it's a great action-adventure film whilst also being a great usage of the Star Wars setting (seriously, the worldbuilding was startlingly in-depth. They canonised Teras Kasi by name, for god's sake!).

hey.

good film. check it out.

Characters:

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Offline Wymarc

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #1 on: 05/25/18, 08:44:52 AM »
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I agree that the movie is a success. It did what it needed to do - be fun. Not a little fun, but really fun. Grinning for 40 minutes straight fun. That said, I had problems.

First, Maul. In a world were everyone consumes all Star Wars fiction, its perfect. But that's not the world we live in, and I'm afraid they're gonna lose people.

Second, Han's character arc. I don't think he has one. It looks like he is going to, a decent into crime and darkness, but then they shy away from it. It would have been better if they'd shown him at a bar, broken by betrayal, shown him stealing from the locals, then cut to him cheating to win the Falcon from Lando. Instead he starts a starry-eyed kid and ends a starry-eyed kid.

Know what would fix both of these? Solo 2. And I definitely left the theater wanting more. I could see it as Han getting pulled into a gang war, Jabba vs Maul, forcing more interaction with Qi'ra and really driving that betrayal home. We could also see it from another perspective, with Han in the background already worn down by the life of crime - a Boba Fett movie?

Also, speaking of canonizations, I can't believe the made the Lando trilogy canon. And how they did it was brilliant! I died. Really, any time Lando was on screen. I already liked Lando, but Glover played him perfectly.

Also enjoyed the driving/flying. And how much effort they put into finding a way for it to make sense for the Falcon to make a handbrake turn.
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Offline recoveringgeek

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #2 on: 05/25/18, 10:38:14 AM »
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You know what I hate?

That the new trilogy has made me less and less excited to see new Star Wars movies. Each year now it's more trepidation than joy. I can't decide, are the new movies really great, and I'm too much the curmudgeon unable to see the great things they're doing, and at the same time unwilling to see the warts of the Original Trilogy?

It was a fun movie. It absolutely was a Smuggler adventure story in the same vein as many of things we do here every year in our community. It even starred Alden Ehrenreich as a plucky scoundrel who's first name happens to be Han.

Was he Han Solo for me? No, not even close. Yes he had moments where he caught the look, the smirk, the dialogue. His voice threw me off every time. I kept waiting for his best attempt at the Harrison Ford gasp. That incredulous open-mouthed look when he realizes he's in over his head. Harrison used it for Han and Indy, and I needed to hear that sound that sells it.

It didn't help that Donald Glover nails young Lando Calrissian in every scene. The first scene when you can't see him clearly and he's just talking? Nailed Billy Dee Williams voice inflection. So poor Alden had his work cut out for him. Also, it wasn't super necessary for the story, however they cheated the audience on learning a little bit about Sabacc, and I think I was hoping for a Casino Royale style-scene where the stakes were high and the tension palpable. I did enjoy the Falcon having a "boot" locked on to its' landing gear to show that even "ol' smoothy" has his own troubles.

The rest of the cast was good. Paul Bettany was mis-cast as Dryden Vos. I like Paul Bettany, however I couldn't decide if I was supposed to fear Vos or sympathize with him as a mid-level lieutenant suffering under a bigger Crime Lord.

I really enjoy Woody Harrelson, and he is the perfect age to play the grizzled Smuggler, it was just missing something and I can't place my finger on it. Still, he punched someone in the face, so who am I to complain?

I liked how Han and Chewie met. I think I was hoping to see some of Han's exploits as an Imperial pilot. That said, it was amusing to show him three years later demoted to the Grunts due to his off-screen antics. Han and Chewie had great, believable chemistry, which was a relief.

I liked everything with the Pyke Syndicate, and a job stealing fuel is great fun. The Kessel Run was great fun. Qi'Ra's last minute turn? Perfect. I enjoy every scene she was in. I was surprised to see Maul, and it has potential, and I didn't actually realize heading into the movie they had already signed the cast to do two more. So I need to be patient and give them time.

L3 and droid's rights? Perfect. Loved the droid sidekick, loved her humour, but damn her voice sounded like Gwendolyn Christie in every scene and it threw me out of the movie several times.

Lots of 'Falcon-porn, as predicted. Great use of the ship as both a plot device and even as a character.

[nerdhat]
That's not where the escape pod(s) are.
[/nerdhat]

Han shot first.

Edit: I liked Rogue One much more. It had the Underworld feel while still straying close to the "Epic" storylines of the main movies, but it also paid homage to all the wonderful things that made A New Hope amazing in its' time while still telling a new, darker story.

Edit: Calrissian Chronicles. Died.
« Last Edit: 05/25/18, 10:43:18 AM by recoveringgeek »
I knew some of the Palace history, but not the bit about Jaade crashing that barge. That's good lore, right there.  :grin:

Offline Orell

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #3 on: 05/25/18, 05:19:29 PM »
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...so, I think my thoughts on Solo are split between two reactions.

As a Film

It's great! The writing's sharp, the twists and turns are well pulled off, especially the ones at the end, it was never drop-dead hilarious but it earned more than a few earnest smirks and chuckles ("I have a really good feeling about this!" *does something suicidally stupid*), the action is good, even if the effects take over too much of it at points and I have to restrain myself from yelling at Han for moving towards a guy with a knife when he has a gun...

...but strong, smart, funny, L3-37 is great even if her name is sooooo mid-naughts, just a lot of great stuff in there.

But. There's the other part.

As a Star Wars Film

This might be the first work in the Star Wars canon that's made worse by its connection to the rest of the franchise than it is made better. At least when it comes to my views.

First, Star Wars has gotten really obsessed with "Iconic" things in the Disney era, and it's wearing on me. Han's dice are the ur-example of this because... before TLJ, did anyone ever bring up the dice... ever? I mean, I guess they were set-dressing for the Falcon cockpit in the OT, but I don't remember them being commented on, I don't remember them being brought up in Force Awakens, TLJ had them as a symbol for Han and his loss, which... hey, it has to be a physical thing for plot reasons, those are as good as any...

...but here, it tried to make it a whole thing, where it's his most prized possession or something.

And there were other bits like that throughout. Han getting the blaster, Chewie tearing a guy's arms off, Han making a crack about how Chewbacca needs a nickname, the whole Han Shoots First bit that didn't need an explanation that it was the right move... for fucks sake, Han speaking Sheriwook with FUCKING SUBTITLES that Chewie's never gotten!

Seriously, I want that scene sans subtitles. I'm sure you could've made it perfectly comprehensible without them. Bet that was some test-audience bullshit. Unless I'm mistaken the only times we've seen subtitles used in Star Wars was with Greedo (because Han's encounter with Jabba was cut and they needed to make it clear why Han was being chased) and a collection of Geonosians in Episode 2. Star Wars shouldn't need subtitles for the non-english speaking chars!

...and then there's the stuff that makes the other films... weird. Like, okay, Kessel Run, fine, you want to tell everyone why that makes sense, sure, but now he did it in under 12 parsecs while a space monstrosity was trying to eat him and Tie Fighters were shooting at him, you'd think he'd bring that up too!

Also, L3-37's head got uploaded to the Falcon computer, never to be mentioned ever again because she wasn't there when the other films were written. Or Chewbacca... being implied to have killed and eaten people. Yum.

But... honestly, my biggest issue is the ending. The battle's done, good guys mostly won, Kira's Qi'ra's heading off to join... Darth Maul (...seriously, I know he survives to the Rebels series, but was he really in charge of a major crime syndicate at that point too?), and wow maybe Han helped birth the rebellion! Gasp!

ugh.

It just saps A New Hope's scene with Han returning of a lot of heart. This time, he turned down the money for the right cause so much easier, Kira's Qi'ra's betrayal doesn't change that.

If I was writing it? The nascent rebels would've been wiped out, Kira Qi'ra and/or Woodie kill everyone but Han and Chewie and let them go for old time's sake. Give Han the unhappy backstory needed to justify why he'd turn his back on the Rebels in their hour of need, because these kids in this film? This wasn't their hour of need nearly as much. I... just can't see the Han that puts his life on the line to give some kids fuel and won in the end to turning his back on the Rebel Alliance because fuck you, he got paid.

So yeah. A generally good film, just hurt because it's a Star Wars film...
« Last Edit: 05/25/18, 05:46:52 PM by Orell »
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Offline Orell

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #4 on: 05/25/18, 05:30:39 PM »
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Oh, one pet peeve that I'm just kinda disappointed by?

So, they're heading towards a gravity well, giant space demon thing on their tail, and they need to get a burst of speed. Okay, sticky situation.

Now me? I would've said "So, we've established an escape pod on the ship, right? So, what we can do is have the Falcon enter a sling-shot around the gravity well, going in full throttle, and at the midpoint, we eject the escape pod, giving the Falcon a massive burst of speed as it flies out of the gravity well much faster than when it entered. It's a classic maneuver, nice and simple speed boost!

...........nope. They do eject the escape pod, sure, but only as a lure for the beastie. Instead, they use the unstable macguffin as nitro for one big tension filled moment.

Sigh.

Use real science when you can, people! It's not that hard!

EDIT because I don't want to triple post: Also also: Is anyone else getting really tired of the "random background aliens with no named species and are clearly hugely expensive works of CGI and/or puppetry that have never been seen before and will never be seen again"? Because the Disney era's been swamped with them, and they're getting tiresome to me...
« Last Edit: 05/25/18, 05:36:43 PM by Orell »
Character List:

Pub side: Lien Orell, Kyri Orell, Shaantil (possibly Dumas), Norland, Everen (bank alt ATM), Quarashaa (Pub version of the real Quarasha), Merrant

Imp Side: Quarasha, Effet Ornell, Arazel, Zedney, Zhel, Asori-Alnas

Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #5 on: 05/25/18, 07:30:33 PM »
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I loved every second of that film, Moreso than i did with TLJ.

Offline blingdenston

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #6 on: 05/26/18, 02:26:56 AM »
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Loved it! Not quite as much as TLJ, but even more than Rogue One. Despite this one's...similar troubles as a 'Star Wars Story' (overbearing producers, reshoots, changing directors midstream, etc.) it's not nearly as sliced apart and respliced as Rogue One was, and the music was not even NEARLY as weak and rushed as Rogue One's.

As folks MAAAAY have noticed, I'm a big fan of the Han Solo Trilogy (and, also, fond for the Lando Calrissian books, too!), but I'm not nearly as married to them as I am to the movies, and getting a replacement for them (and, hopefully, nipping off some awful shit like the Sal-Solo stuff at the goddamn bud) is pretty much a positive to me! Hopefully, we can put behind the odious Wookiee lifedebt and other old cruft, too.

That said...I'm not at all fond of the reveal of who the big cheese of Crimson Dawn is. I was worried that it was gonna be something REALLY dumb like...I dunno, revealing that Dryden Vos was the 'origin' point for Snoke, that Han gave him those nasty bone deformations or something and he dedicated his life to mastering evil magick and corrupting Han's kid as revenge or some shit.  So, this is better, I guess.

I just have no attachment to Maul or any of his further appearances as a fallen Sith or a Mandalorian warlord or whatever. He's not a real character, to me. He's just a look. The more he sticks around, the more talking he does in lieu of backflips...the weaker he is. I DO, for the most part, approve of them setting up Crimson Dawn as a kind of meta-threat to stretch across Star Wars Stories (even if it's just the Solo-related ones, though I'm gonna bet it's bigger than that)...but it DOES reek of 'Shadows of the Empire' and the Black Sun Syndicate and Prince Xizor and oh God, please, don't. Don't put him in there. Don't. Don't. Don't.

I think it's fairly obvious that the NEXT thing that happens to Han and Chewie ain't gonna be Ep. IV. They have a LOT more wrecking-up of the Falcon to do...Ehrenreich is about seven years younger than Harrison Ford was when he starred in Star Wars...they've got two more of these movies to make, potentially...it's nothin' to be worried about. I'll bet that the 'big time gangster' he's going to Tatooine to meet isn't going to be Jabba. And, if it is...hey, he's gotta get some successful stuff under his belt before he can even APPROACH the three years of credit Jabba gives him before coming after him hard in TESB.

Oh...and on Orell's point about L3 never being mentioned again...remember Empire Strikes Back, how Han asks Threepio to communicate with the Falcon, find out what the problem is?

C-3P0: "Sir, I don't know where your ship learned to communicate, but it has the most peculiar dialect.  I believe, sir, it says that the power coupling on the negative axis has been polarized.  I'm afraid you'll have to replace it."

(Also, again: possibly two sequels.)
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Offline humanelf

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #7 on: 05/27/18, 11:18:00 AM »
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Over all I thought it was alright,no scene that was terrible but also no Rogue One Vader scene for me (best scene in all of Disney star wars). Han didn't seem like Han to me in most of the film. But they got lando down almost perfectly if not absolutely perfect. L3-37... where do I start... I wasn't a big fan of the droid... did NOT want to know about L3 and landos' free time activities. But the biggest smile that I had was when they plugged L3 into the falcon and I thought... "the one droid that wanted freedom and equal rights is now a slave... poetic."
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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #8 on: 05/27/18, 10:52:14 PM »
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But the biggest smile that I had was when they plugged L3 into the falcon and I thought... "the one droid that wanted freedom and equal rights is now a slave... poetic."

It's Ironic. She could save others from slavery...But not herself.

Offline blingdenston

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #9 on: 05/28/18, 12:30:52 AM »
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What are you guys, Socrates? Afraid that using the record of L3's memories is a violation of the spirit of her existence, that writing captures the essence and imprisons thought in a lexigraphical cage? L3-37 died. What remained of her after death became part of the ship's navicomputer. If that's slavery, I'd hate to think of poor Robert Frost, doomed to linger tortured as 'the road less traveled by' hangs on a million walls and imprisons his mind-force to slavery forevermore.
Pehn Qardaak - Captain of the Rodomontade
Ran-del Qardaak - Big Time Space Hero
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Offline humanelf

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #10 on: 05/28/18, 12:51:29 PM »
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L3-37 died.
See I just thought L3-37 went into lower power mode like R2 did in TFA.
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Offline blingdenston

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #11 on: 05/28/18, 01:28:30 PM »
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The entire character is about the idea that lived experience and emotion should be what count towards 'personhood', not origin. She gets a DEATH SCENE, literally DYING in her friend (maaaaybe lover)'s arms. After he uploads her navigational database into the falcon, he smiles fondly, knowing that part of her will remain even while she's gone.

This ain't rocket surgery, people.
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Ran-del Qardaak - Big Time Space Hero
Lastagir - Hunter for hire, no plans to retire
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Offline humanelf

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #12 on: 05/28/18, 01:44:32 PM »
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Ok I see that now but at the time I saw something else. Art can be seen in many different ways right?
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Offline blingdenston

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #13 on: 05/28/18, 03:40:00 PM »
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Don't mistake my meaning: I'm not saying you're not entitled to your own perspective, or even that you're a clattering fool for following different strains of interpretation than my own...indeed, the general bittersweet tone of the movie does, in a way, support the irony you've identified.

But I don't think that the movie presenting L3's death as a tragic, heroic (slightly foolish) moment should be ignored, nor should Han and Lando be rendered slavesr and butchers forevermore, abusers and monsters without sentiment. That's...woof.
Pehn Qardaak - Captain of the Rodomontade
Ran-del Qardaak - Big Time Space Hero
Lastagir - Hunter for hire, no plans to retire
Hyse Qardaak - Scholar and Warrior of Peace

Offline Hawking

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Re: Solo: A Spoiler Thread
« Reply #14 on: 05/28/18, 09:25:17 PM »
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...nor should Han and Lando be rendered slavesr and butchers forevermore, abusers and monsters without sentiment. That's...woof.

I've heard some thoughts that Han and Lando were portrayed too sympathetically here, particularly in the ending, to line up with their ANH and ESB counterparts. Which seems a bit ridiculous to me. I'll go back to what @Orell said:

Quote
It just saps A New Hope's scene with Han returning of a lot of heart. This time, he turned down the money for the right cause so much easier, Qi'ra's betrayal doesn't change that.

If I was writing it? The nascent rebels would've been wiped out, Kira Qi'ra and/or Woodie kill everyone but Han and Chewie and let them go for old time's sake. Give Han the unhappy backstory needed to justify why he'd turn his back on the Rebels in their hour of need, because these kids in this film? This wasn't their hour of need nearly as much. I... just can't see the Han that puts his life on the line to give some kids fuel and won in the end to turning his back on the Rebel Alliance because fuck you, he got paid.

I hope this is where the sequels, or...indirect sequels...or whatever it is we're getting, tidy this up a little. I think the Han we get at the end of Solo is the Han that comes back in ANH, not the one that leaves. His character is the quintessential 'smuggler with a heart of gold'. He's young here, and new to the big stage of the criminal underworld, and I actually kinda liked that his first inclination as a kid with a blaster and a new ship was to help people. Maybe that's why he comes full circle at the Death Star, and fuller circle still when he confronts Ben in TFA. Dude's got a good heart beneath his rough exterior, that's the primary DNA thread of his character. As Churchill said: '[CORELLIANS] will always do the right thing, after exhausting all the alternatives.'

So the question is, where does 'leaver' Han come from? The guy who ran from the Death Star and later from the Rebellion and his son. What happens to make him cynical and jaded? Qi'ra's departure is hinting at an unhappy reunion at some point, but as you said, the fact that it was indirect meant that Han didn't seem to need much prompting to palm a fortune off to some kids in the desert. Guess we'll see!

Characters:

-Hawking Shatari, Master of Myserty
-Aspasia Maguire, Smack Talker
-Rieko "Boogie" Black, Agent of the Empire