[Cyone]

This thread seems like a quagmire of controversy I could lose way more time and energy in than I'd care to, so I'll keep my commentary brief (if I can manage it).

As an ardent detractor of The Last Jedi in nearly every aspect, a personally sorely disappointed fan in need of another unexpected favorite like Rogue One ended up being for me, as well as someone possessed of their fair share of doubts going into this movie, I have only this to say:

I have a really good feeling about this.

[Orell]

1: The controversy is mostly about one minor point in the film, it's delivered weirdly there, we're nowhere near the "THE LAST JEDI RAPED MY CHILDHOOD IN THE BUTT" hyperbolic territory, don't worry :).

2: God I loved that line. Not only is it a great subversion of the "I have a bad feeling about this" line, it's also just hilarious on it's own. "I have a really good feeling about this!" *does something suicidally stupid* is just a great beat :D.

[GabrielThorne]

I was kidding about the whole L3-37 being a slave thing. >.> y'know, the whole "darth plagueis could save others from death but not himself" thing.

[GabrielThorne]

The entire character is about the idea that lived experience and emotion should be what count towards 'personhood', not origin. She gets a DEATH SCENE, literally DYING in her friend (maaaaybe lover)'s arms. After he uploads her navigational database into the falcon, he smiles fondly, knowing that part of her will remain even while she's gone.

This ain't rocket surgery, people.

R2-D2 literally exploded on a republic ship filled with rhydonium and was rebuilt not a few hours, possibly days later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjrlBJwCLk

[Sotekh]

But... honestly, my biggest issue is the ending. The battle's done, good guys mostly won, Kira's Qi'ra's heading off to join... Darth Maul (...seriously, I know he survives to the Rebels series, but was he really in charge of a major crime syndicate at that point too?), and wow maybe Han helped birth the rebellion! Gasp!

ugh.

It just saps A New Hope's scene with Han returning of a lot of heart. This time, he turned down the money for the right cause so much easier, Kira's Qi'ra's betrayal doesn't change that.

If I was writing it? The nascent rebels would've been wiped out, Kira Qi'ra and/or Woodie kill everyone but Han and Chewie and let them go for old time's sake. Give Han the unhappy backstory needed to justify why he'd turn his back on the Rebels in their hour of need, because these kids in this film? This wasn't their hour of need nearly as much. I... just can't see the Han that puts his life on the line to give some kids fuel and won in the end to turning his back on the Rebel Alliance because fuck you, he got paid.

So yeah. A generally good film, just hurt because it's a Star Wars film...

1) Maul *was* in charge of a crime syndicate in Clone Wars (the Shadow Collective, which isn't Crimson Dawn, but perhaps that relationship will be detailed later--is Crimson Dawn part of the Shadow Collective, or a new org founded after Sidious busted up the Collective?  I dunno.)

2) One of the things I liked most about this movie, actually, is Han's moral struggles.  Just my opinion, but I find it more convincing this way, not less.  The way I see it, Han starts out with a good heart, but the life he leads and his experiences convince him that it's just not worth it to be the Good Guy.  Just in this movie, Qi'ra leaves him, Beckett tries to kill him, Lando cheats him, and the Empire isn't his friend, either. 

And this is all 10 years before ANH, giving him an entire additional decade to become more cynical, more anesthetized to suffering in the dog-eat-dog galaxy under the Empire, until by the time he meets Luke, he's only looking out for himself, his Wookiee friend, and the Falcon.  But during ANH, he scrapes off all--or enough--of the hard-bitten cynicism, spurred on by the people and events of that movie, which are all perfectly positioned to counter the events of the Solo movie: Luke and Leia are young and optimistic, and neither betrays him, like Qi'ra and Beckett, and who knows how many others during the intervening 10 years; they don't try to cheat him, strand him, or oppress him.  Further, unlike all the hustlers, low-lifes, conmen, gangsters, and thieves Han must have dealt with in the decade prior to ANH, Luke and Leia are genuine and sincere; and they are willing to put their lives on the line to fight against the very same Empire that Han must surely despise, both for what it stands for in the larger sense (tyranny, whereas Han craves liberty), and for its impact upon his individual life.

In Solo, you see Han trying to bury the "Good Guy"--that conversation where he's directly saying that he's not the Good Guy, for instance--but I think the very fact that others still see him that way, and that he is trying to convince someone (and possibly himself) otherwise, is telling; at this point, the cynicism is not yet fully developed, only partially so.  That he's having to have that conversation, that he's having to try to bury it in the first place, indicates this, I would argue. Han's certainly not a stone cold badass, like we're meant to perceive Boba Fett as; no one mistakes Fett for a "Good Guy," or tries to convince him he's one.

For Han to go from young and eager to world-weary and cynical back to renewed hope is, to me, more convincing than if he'd been a hard-boiled, dyed-in-the-wool, "I got mine", unfeeling con man with no concern for ethics or morality all along, until he had a chance encounter with a farmboy, a geezer,  and a princess.  Sure, he falls in love with Leia, but all that's still in the future when Han comes back for the Death Star trench run, so I don't believe one can attribute his change of heart solely to that.  Especially since Leia's surely not the first female he's encountered since Qi'ra--if he were 100% Cynical Han all along, I don't see where Leia would be any different from any of the other women after Qi'ra, in terms of being able to effect a change in his outlook.



Make sense?

[Elaeis]

I don't have the time or brain cells to go too deep this late into the evening. I just wanted to say that I finally saw Solo today. 

I was in total astonishment. I absolutely loved it.  I am delighted to the core that I came out of that film loving it as much as I did.  I was expecting to do a lot of flinching and grimacing.  I was highly dubious they would ever be able to get a film like this right.  I almost dreaded going to see it because of how worried I was that they would screw up one of the most beloved and important characters in pop culture history.  Instead, I left feeling overjoyed and inspired. 

We all have our preferences and our reasons for liking or disliking Disney's offerings.  Unfortunately, I've felt a lot of frustration and disappointment over Disney's handling of The Force Awakens and, to a lesser degree, The Last Jedi. 

When I compare the sequels and the anthology movies that have been made so far I recognized that what makes them uniquely differ from one another is their tone.  It's hard to explain tone.  Some people are very tone deaf while others get it on a level where it counts.  I wasn't expecting to be delighted by this movie in the slightest, but Solo nailed it out of the park for me and I am looking forward to watching it again.

So far I have enjoyed these anthology offerings much more than the sacred sequels.  I feel like they have more liberty to explore and expand Star Wars in ways in which the sequels cannot--not because it wasn't possible for the sequels to do the same, but because I think the architecture of the sequels isn't as strong as it should have been and that is something I attribute entirely to writing choices.  The Force Awakens lacked a lot of really, extremely crucial details that made the foundation for that movie, and consequently the entire sequel trilogy, have very shoddy legs to stand on.  In comparision, Solo delivered such a wonderful and brilliant balance of high adventure,  humor, lore and character development without ever leaving me feel like I was short changed or missing some important piece of the puzzle.

This movie did a lot to make me excited for the next anthology installment.  I truly hope we well see an Obi Wan movie made and that it, too, will get the balance right. 

[Sotekh]

This movie did a lot to make me excited for the next anthology installment.  I truly hope we well see an Obi Wan movie made and that it, too, will get the balance right.

So would I, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see a Boba Fett movie, where we can see him do more than get punked by a groggy blind guy.

[blingdenston]

R2-D2 literally exploded on a republic ship filled with rhydonium and was rebuilt not a few hours, possibly days later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjrlBJwCLk

Things you'll notice aren't in this scene: a somber beat as Artoo is dealt a mortal blow; a scene of desperate efforts to rescue Artoo against unbeatable odds; a tender scene where a perishing Artoo gives it's last words; a somber note of hope as Artoo's essence lives on in a different form.

This is, in point of fact, a sawed-off 'get this hero to a medic!' scene.  If Artoo was, say, a plucky young private who attempts to sacrifice herself, is pulled from the wreckage in dire shape, treated by doctors, and then gives a thumbs-up from the sickbed, the feeling would be the same. The context of L3's final moments and fate as the 'soul' of the Millennium Falcon is blatantly that of a death scene.

Also...is the pacing on this show ALWAYS like this? It feels like an issue of Youngblood. Things just happen, no build-up, no tension...just...stuff.

[Cyone]

From what I can tell? Yeah, kinda. It's what makes the shows feel real kids-y to me. I mean, it's meant to be a kids show, but so is Justice League Animated and that doesn't stop it from having buildup and dramatic tension. Then again frenetic pacing is sort of a general epidemic that I personally have been feeling across all film mediums in recent history. It's one of the reasons I don't like TFA as much either (despite it being a far, far cry better than TLJ in my book).

[Hawking]

From what I can tell? Yeah, kinda. It's what makes the shows feel real kids-y to me. I mean, it's meant to be a kids show, but so is Justice League Animated and that doesn't stop it from having buildup and dramatic tension.

Remains my biggest gripe with Rebels. The anthology style worked for the Clone Wars due to the setting, but it did the whole multi-episode arch thing. Rebels really should have been a linear story, in the style of Avatar.

[Wymarc]

Remains my biggest gripe with Rebels. The anthology style worked for the Clone Wars due to the setting, but it did the whole multi-episode arch thing. Rebels really should have been a linear story, in the style of Avatar.

What? It is...

[Hawking]

Remains my biggest gripe with Rebels. The anthology style worked for the Clone Wars due to the setting, but it did the whole multi-episode arch thing. Rebels really should have been a linear story, in the style of Avatar.

What? It is...

Diverging from the thread, but, only the fourth season was really like that. The earlier three were chock full of meaningless or disconnected story beats with only real narrative development coming at the beginning and end of a season, often with a two-episode window in the middle where something significant happened. Beyond that, episodes didn't have a whole lot of continuity between each other

[GabrielThorne]

R2-D2 literally exploded on a republic ship filled with rhydonium and was rebuilt not a few hours, possibly days later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjrlBJwCLk

Things you'll notice aren't in this scene: a somber beat as Artoo is dealt a mortal blow; a scene of desperate efforts to rescue Artoo against unbeatable odds; a tender scene where a perishing Artoo gives it's last words; a somber note of hope as Artoo's essence lives on in a different form.

This is, in point of fact, a sawed-off 'get this hero to a medic!' scene.  If Artoo was, say, a plucky young private who attempts to sacrifice herself, is pulled from the wreckage in dire shape, treated by doctors, and then gives a thumbs-up from the sickbed, the feeling would be the same. The context of L3's final moments and fate as the 'soul' of the Millennium Falcon is blatantly that of a death scene.

Also...is the pacing on this show ALWAYS like this? It feels like an issue of Youngblood. Things just happen, no build-up, no tension...just...stuff.

Yeah, but the point that i'm trying to make is that droids don't die. Like...short of being melted down, a droid can't physically die. That scene might have been reminiscent of a death scene, sure, but L3's still alive, just in a new body.

[blingdenston]

And the point I'm making is that droids can definitely die, because they treat the passing of L3 as a death. SHE acts like she's dying. LANDO acts like she's dead. Lando is OFFENDED when Han suggests they upload her database to the Falcon. Lando is rueful but happy when he realizes L3 will live on as part of his beloved ship.

Whether or not she could have been reuploaded to a new droid body (which would be tough, considering that she's a completely unique droid made from a mosaic of different models, plus the amount of damage she had taken had likely damaged her verbobrain and personality core) doesn't change the EMOTIONS of the characters responding to what happened. You can either say, 'Ha, what a bunch of doofuses for caring about a stupid robot' or you can pay attention to the themes present in the actual movie and deal with them.

[Ash]

Pretty late to this discussion thread, but I saw solo yesterday and I thought I'd put my thoughts out there. Especially considering my opinions over the movie are...mixed to say the least. Lots of retconning, some stupid moments, some good moments, and a few dull moments in there. So...let's get into it.

Positive!

Because I'm a positive person I want to just start off with the stuff I liked, and it did some pretty good stuff. I loved how Han and Lando's relationship came to be. It really gave off that feeling from Episode V of how they may respect each other and team up from time to time, they both subtly piss off one another. Plus the whole sabbacc scene for the falcon, twice, really reminded me of the books, so i certainly liked that. Chewie's reveal was cool...was a bit disappointed they didn't mention the whole life debt part but I can knock that off as a oversite. Alden Ehrenreich did his best to be Han and he certainly had his moments where I thought "there's my boy," but then being Han is a tall order to begin with. And one little detail that I loved that some of the movies has kinda ignored is the old star wars species. Seeing Twi'lek, Rodians, Duro, just the classic star wars aliens again was really nice, especially since the main films have a weird obligation to try and ignore those species when possible...for some weird reason. Oh, and Warwick Davis. That cameo brought a sweet smile to my face.

The negatives! Because every movie has one and this is no exception.

The whole retconning of Kessel and the Maw, honestly, pissed me off. How such a interesting, dangerous, and contested region of space is devolved into just a big ol' cloud with a gravity well in the center...which makes no sense, but whatever. I like to think the Kessel region, where in the EU is a partially destroyed planet, barely staying together as it skirts the region of space when a cluster of thousands of blackholes encompasses space would be far more interesting, but that's what the film crew decided not to go with. The villian sucked...I can't even remember his name except that it's temper tantrum jarvis. The lighting was off at times...especially when they first enter the falcon. It just seemed far too dark for what it should be. Hyperfuel...was weird. I may just not have understood it and they decided to finally give the fuel in star wars a name. I need to think over that a bit, but it certainly quirked a brow. And finally corellia...it looked kinda bland, like some knock off, low budget coruscant. And it also messed with me that it didn't show any Drall or Selonian. That was a real missed oportunity to show the effects of the empire on alien species. Just a missed opportunity.

Over all I just felt the movie was...Meh. The good parts kept me entertained, the bad moments kept me pissed, and there was just a lot of down time between the two. Where stuff didn't happened and left no impression. The movie, overall, is just something I don't plan on ever seeing again, and would like to just kinda ignore...as something that doesn't represent the star wars i grew up with. Though, this is from the respective of a unchanging veteran of the series...so take that with a bit of salt.